Vise and tools for nut (Full Version)

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XXX -> Vise and tools for nut (Sep. 17 2011 20:52:35)

My first attempt in making a new nut bone was by using sand paper to get the height and a SAW to cut the slots into the nut [:D] i cut the slots too deep and need to make a new start.
Anyway, i wanna experiment a little with new nuts, see if i can get a little more playability. This however on a very amateurish level which im aware of and completely fine with.

I had a look at this vise: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddles/Special_tools_for:_Nuts_and_saddles/Nut_and_Saddle_Vise.html?tab=Video#details

the question i have in my mind is... do i need a second vise to hold this vise tight? Or is it heavy enough to work with?
As for the tools to cut the slots, i thought about going just for ONE file instead of six, and trying my best to get the right size.



Gimar Yestra -> RE: Vise and tools for nut (Sep. 17 2011 22:44:52)

I always install the nut and file the slot while it son the guitar, that way I dont need a vise (dont even have one), also, I also string the guitar so I can check the depts of the slots while filing them.

I wouldn't use a saw personally, they usualy dont give a round bottom on the slot.

I dno about the vise, if its not heavy enough you could try clamping it down to a table.

Alo for the files, check your string gauges, If you realy only want to get 1 file get the smallest one, so u won't end up with slots to wide for the thinest string, by turning the file as u go you can make the slot slightly wider for the other strings.

though best would be to buy a few thicknesses to match the string gauges.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Vise and tools for nut (Sep. 18 2011 2:58:44)

Get the .026/.032 and .036/.042 files and those will cover all 6 strings. Use the side of the file that's closest to the diameter of each string. After I have the string spacing laid out on the nut I clamp it in that little vise and start the slots with a saw. You don't need a bigger vise and you don't really *need* any vise, but I need the vise because I also take a round file and hollow out the back of the slots, leaving the string to sit on about 2 mm of nut. That minimizes friction and annoying buzzes but it's not necessary.
I bring the slots down to the proper depth by filing, with the heel end of the file guiding gently on the headplate to get a consistent angle. Do this with the strings on and just move one over at a time, bring the slot down and keep checking until you have a minimal gap between the string and the first fret when you fret the string at the 3rd fret. I hope that makes sense... it is one of the more tedious parts of guitar making but it goes pretty quick when you get the hang of it.



XXX -> RE: Vise and tools for nut (Sep. 18 2011 6:43:18)

Ok thanks, so it looks like it could work. Which file should I take to get the height of the whole bone? I mean thats a lot of material to file. And about the vise... so you guys say I can do all those tasks with the bone being in the nut slot? How is it going to hold tight, since I cant use the strings to fixate as there are no holes for them to put them into? I dont have a problem spending that money on a vise as it is advertised at stewmac, but the thing I got from the video demo there is that it was made to be put in another vise to hold it in place. As Im doing this at home, I dont have ANY vise, and with the exception of sandpaper, also no useful tools.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Vise and tools for nut (Sep. 18 2011 8:15:08)

Deniz

The cheapest small vise in your local chinese multimarket will do. one of those with a wingnut to clamp it on your kitchen table. Use your money on some good files.

Stewmac has many nice things, but also a ton of things you dont need.



mrMagenta -> RE: Vise and tools for nut (Sep. 18 2011 8:27:07)

Get a mini-vice that you can clamp at a table. If there is a lot of material to take off, use a saw with thin blade. You don't want that bone-dust in your lungs. Use good ventilation when shaping (i use a vacuum cleaner at a low setting, close to the piece). I don't shape with a file, I use sandpaper. I find it easier to control. Good round files for the slots makes it easy to do the last bit. A guitar builder told me that it's good if the strings lay one third in the groove, so that the edges of the canal aren't pinching the string.. i don't know if this really has any effect, but I do mine this way. I file the grooves in the vice, but I have a set of used strings or something to check the width of the grooves. I might also angle the grooves just a little so that the strings run as straight as possible to their rollers



Gimar Yestra -> RE: Vise and tools for nut (Sep. 18 2011 12:15:28)

Sometimes I use a little drop (DON'T use alot) of superglue to hold the nut in place on the guitar.

As for bringing the nut down in height, use a strick, doublesided sticky paper and some sandpaper, works realy well for shaping nuts and saddles, you can easily polish the nut with some fine sandpaper aswell.



XXX -> RE: Vise and tools for nut (Sep. 18 2011 13:30:44)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson
The cheapest small vise in your local chinese multimarket will do. one of those with a wingnut to clamp it on your kitchen table. Use your money on some good files.

Stewmac has many nice things, but also a ton of things you dont need.


I didnt know these thingies have gotten so cheap. I didnt know it for YEARS, otherwise i would have bought one of them long time ago. I guess something like this will suffice.
Can I also replace the slot files from StewMc, with files from a shop in Europe or something?



Steve Wright -> RE: Vise and tools for nut (Sep. 18 2011 14:29:09)

quote:

I always install the nut and file the slot while it son the guitar, I also string the guitar so I can check the depts of the slots while filing them.

I wouldn't use a saw personally, they usualy dont give a round bottom on the slot.


I feel this is the only accurate way, as Gimar says. I file each slot down with a set of files on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FILE-SET-12-ROUND-AND-1-FLAT-FILE-FREE-POSTAGE-/250709777933?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3a5f779e0d#ht_5173wt_1127 so you can use the correct size for each slot.

I use a metal gauge to stop me filing it too low - this happens to be a Paper knife (don't tell my wife). I don't need a vice for this as I put the guitar on a blanket/carpet and hold the neck by hand.

I never file the under-side of the nut or saddle now as it is too easy to get it wrong and affect the overall balance of the volume/intensity that each string will have - due to it's connection to the guitar. If it is not straight, some of the strings will have less volume than they should. This is even more critical should you have a pick-up under the saddle. Keep in mind if you ever fit a pick-up that it obviously raises the saddle, but also could put undue strain on the bridge (over years) I used to use a coping saw, but it's too easy to use and go over-board.

Saddles, I determine how low the action is at the 12th fret, how much it needs to come down by, times it by 2 and make pencil marks on the saddle. It also determine whether the saddle can be flat or domed. Before filing the saddle (or grinder) I determine what the intonation is like and whether I need to leave a bit of height to allow me to adjust the intonation.

I find this method gives me perfect results.



Gimar Yestra -> RE: Vise and tools for nut (Sep. 18 2011 15:53:07)

also when leaving the nut on the guitar, you can easily file the slot to the proper angle towards the peg or roller instead of just filing them straight.

Im sure there are european companys that have the same, or similar files for sale.



Steve Wright -> RE: Vise and tools for nut (Sep. 18 2011 17:33:23)

quote:

file the slot to the proper angle towards the roller instead of just filing them straight


Yes, this is very true, but you just have to be careful not to be too over-enthusiastic or else you damage the head-stock. But I do think the break angle has to be consider here are the nut as Gimar says, rather than leave it flat and possibly cause some other problems. These are all the fine tweaking that you may not notice when buying.

Actually, I'm in favour of having a 'zero' fret which I think will alter the whole tone of the guitar - making it brighter and doing away with the need of gauging the depth of the cut on the nut.



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