guitars are investment?? (Full Version)

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doublek -> guitars are investment?? (Sep. 13 2011 0:48:03)

Hey Guys...

I had a discussion between me and some friends about guitars and the money value ,we had some concerns towards some opinions .. but the question came to my mind is it real that guitars are investment ?? please i would love to share this question with you all ...how do you see guitars as investment ?for work? hobby?or collector? or it worth investing in...??

Best Regards



kudo -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 13 2011 0:51:23)

yes, the way I see it, its worth every penny, the more money and time you put into it, the greater the pleasure. now, I dont like playing video games anymore after I got my guitar, its my ultimate toy!



BarkellWH -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 13 2011 1:35:02)

I do not think one should buy a guitar thinking it is an investment unless one really knows what one is doing, and it concerns a truly exceptional guitar made by an exceptional luthier. By that, I mean, for example, a 1923 or 1935 authentic Santos Hernandez, or a Marcello Barbero, or a Manuel Reyes, or an early (in it's heyday) Ramirez in great shape. Something, that is, that will most likely increase in value in the future. But to buy something like that, you will have to be prepared to shell out a considerable amount of money. I would not buy anything today--Conde, Ramirez, Bellido, or any number of other makers--as a monetary investment. Unless one has the money to buy a guitar as an investment the way one would buy a painting that is sure to increase in value, forget it and just go for a guitar that you enjoy playing.

Cheers,

Bill



odinz -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 13 2011 8:20:05)

I dont think any guitar deserves to be looked at as an investment[:D]

But like BarkellWH says some guitars become worth alot of money, but i think that if you find a guitar either by luck or alot of testing, and it feels perfect for you, then its value is allready there, it becomes a partner and friend, i think that is the true value.

So now i work my ass of, someday i will make this guitar famous[;)]




I am very emotionally attached to my guitar you see[:D]



Ruphus -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 13 2011 12:58:55)

Bill is right, I think.
Antiques aside, and the expertise it needs to ensure good short-term investment into vintage; contemporary makes appear to be only worth as investment if there either exists an extremely long waiting list, or the luthier having retired / passed away.

Other than that, practical prospects don´t appear worth speculation, considering the raise in quality of contemporary production and the expanded number of skilled luthiers in the same time.

Currently prices appear to steadily inflate ( like with markets in general ), but both, supply and economical recession will likely mill it all down.

A couple of traditional image brands like Ramirez might be evelvated even further by the laymen rich and their ever increasing superfluous funds, but Joe average will foreseeingly be due to invest his ever shrinking budget into ordinary demand like of drinking water and soilent green.

That´s when you might get your todays Bellido for some 200 bucks if you can afford it still, while the man himself might be employed by his local in-folks as janitor.
In a future of devastation and little to eat, everything will be in discrepancy, including the arts and a deserting guitar market.

... Unless, people were to be stepping up to societal and ecological destruction timely, which appears to be of minute chance to be happening.

Want to invest into a future as is?
Check out fields like rare soils internationally, and water management & farming in Canada.
It could give a couple years of ledge before becoming cutlet of someone who has invested even better. ;O)

Ruphus



Richard Jernigan -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 13 2011 18:50:32)

In 1973 Jose Romanillos guitars were going for about $850. Romanillos' prestige had already received a sizable boost from his association with Julian Bream, and Bream's playing a '71 model. The luthier's fame increased markedly as Bream continued to concertize and record with a 1973 Romanillos.

Guessing at today's price, a '73 Romanillos would have returned about 10% annually on investment over a 38 year period. This is good compared to say, the US stock market or real estate, but not as good as gold, at around 11%.

Gold is far more liquid. If you want cash for your gold coins, you can have it the same day on any business day, just about anywhere in the world. You might wait months to sell your high priced guitar.

Furthermore, to have predicted in 1973 today's prices for a Romanillos, you would have to have been just about clairvoyant.

Having said that, one of the factors affecting my decision to buy a '73 Romanillos in 2000 was price appreciation. When I got it for trial, the guitar hadn't been played for years. Furthermore, my technique didn't get the best from it. But after a week, I felt there was something there that I wanted to investigate. I knew I could sell it in a year's time for more than I paid for it.

So I bought it. After a month the guitar had opened up, and my technique had begun to adjust. I wouldn't think of selling it now. When I'm gone, my children won't be sorry their old Dad spent a lot of money on a guitar.

RNJ



doublek -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 13 2011 19:42:49)

Dear Richard.. i understand your point of view and i respect it ,i really enjoyed reading what you wrote and i wish you a lot of happy hours with your precious Romanillos [;)]

Dear Ruphus... I am not in Canada so i will go for the guitars then [:)]
Dear Odinz.. I really agree with you the guitars sometimes it became closer friends ever wish you lot of happy hours enjoying your guitar[;)]

Dear Barkell 100% YOU are Right [;)]

Dear Kudo No video games then you are on the right track buddy [:)][;)]



HolyEvil -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 13 2011 23:42:32)

I really don't think so, if anything, you can invest in famous art, I think that holds value better than a guitar.



doublek -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 14 2011 2:22:19)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

I really don't think so, if anything, you can invest in famous art, I think that holds value better than a guitar.


It depends what you like..but..such as?[8|]



HolyEvil -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 14 2011 23:17:30)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doublek

quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

I really don't think so, if anything, you can invest in famous art, I think that holds value better than a guitar.


It depends what you like..but..such as?[8|]


a pablo picasso [;)]
imagine if you bought an original picasso back in the days.. now your descendents would be laughing to the bank.
a guitar might not appeal to the masses, but art definitely do, even to non artists. Guitars would just appeal to guitarists/musicians...



Richard Jernigan -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 15 2011 4:21:42)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil
Guitars would just appeal to guitarists/musicians...


In fact there are a small group of collectors of classical and flamenco guitars who play very little, or not at all. They do influence prices.

When I bought my '82 Arcangel Fernandez blanca, it was 18 years old. Richard Brune went over it with a magnifying glass and said he could find no sign it had ever been touched, much less played. (He did say he played it for a few hours before sending it on to me.)

Brian Cohen, the English luthier said it had belonged to a collector, and as far as he knew it had spent its entire life until then in a display case.

I bought it to play...but I take good care of it.[;)]

RNJ



richardf -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 15 2011 9:04:52)

Well, to (badly) paraphrase Winston Churchill, a painting is just a nice picture, but a good guitar is a lifetime of challenge, frustration, joy, and satisfaction, not to mention a love affair unlike any other!



Ruphus -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 15 2011 13:32:44)

Which must be why we accept common deals, despite overpricing and pecuniary loss of investments in there.

Only regrets in the matter being, why not having started out with guitar playing as a little kid already.

Ruphus



BarkellWH -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 15 2011 17:58:20)

quote:

Well, to (badly) paraphrase Winston Churchill, a painting is just a nice picture, but a good guitar is a lifetime of challenge, frustration, joy, and satisfaction, not to mention a love affair unlike any other!


I don't mean to quibble, RichardF, but I believe you are paraphrasing Rudyard Kipling, whose actual quote I cite below.

"A woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke."

Apologies to Kate and others on the Foro. I have always preferred women's company to cigars.

Cheers,

Bill



estebanana -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 16 2011 0:10:36)

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but a woman is never "just a woman".



estebanana -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 16 2011 0:24:39)

One of the best things you can do is patronize living active guitar makers. If you can spot the ones who's work will in the future be lasting and profound then those instruments will hold value.

I would in fact if I had the extra money to buy guitar try to get a Manuel Bellido, his work has something special. If you can still get a top grade Barba you will have a solid guitar investment. er are some others, but the well known ones like Barba will not live forever and wen he makes no more guitars the values will climb as the years go by.

Artist death watches are very cynical, but you watch when one of the masters dies what happens to the values. And guitar collecting for investment is a difficult game, you have to know what you are doing and you have to have patience.

So I second the idea of buying what you want to play. But *have some sympathy and some taste* and buy handmade from an independent. If you have a good eye and ear you might pick up some guitars that will hold value. The best way to learn is to try to see collections and ask the collectors why they choose what they choose.



richardf -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 16 2011 3:10:48)

BarkellWH - Yes, you're correct, it is Kipling, not Churchill. Sigh I can no longer rely on my memory these days.

"A million surplus Maggies are willing to bear the yoke;
And a woman is only a woman, but a good Cigar is a Smoke."

Ladies, please accept my apologies - I was not quoting this as a 19th Century sexist comment (which it was when Kipling wrote it) but as a compliment to a good guitar!!

If anyone was offended, I offer my sincerest apologies.



richardf -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 16 2011 3:12:31)

And for what it's worth, I too much prefer the company of women to the hellish fug of burning tobacco.



richardf -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 16 2011 3:14:45)

Look what it did to Moraito Chico, may his spirit descend on me.



elgreco -> RE: guitars are investment?? (Sep. 16 2011 3:38:34)

[:D][:D][:D][:D]
quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH

Apologies to Kate and others on the Foro. I have always preferred women's company to cigars.

Cheers,

Bill



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