Can you look at my nut please? (Full Version)

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JuanDaBomb -> Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 12 2011 7:55:40)

So I whipped out my Paracho guitar I bought many moons ago. It's an OK guitar, a spruce / rosewood built as a 50's Marcelo Barbero. I want to start playing it more, sort of as my "pseudo-negra" [:D] until I can afford a new one. Anyway, so I remove the strings to change them and the nut falls right out of its slot. I understand that a nut is not necessarily glued in, but this one just slides in and out without any compression holding it. Upon closer inspection, I noticed both sides of the slot were also cut at an angle, like this:

[img]https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6087/6139674888_d4cf663a6b_z.jpg[/img]

which looks weird! Basically, the nut only makes contact on its bottom and along the edge cut. Do you think there's an improvement in tone to be had by correcting this? Should the slot be squared and a new nut fitted snuggly, or leave the angle cut? I was thinking maybe its like that for intonation reasons (right now all the strings' 12th fretted notes are noticeable sharp compared to the harmonics).

Any advice would be appreciated! [:)] Thanks

(incidentally, he sent me a copy of the Barbero plan, if it's of use to anyone just let me know.)



Jeff Highland -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 12 2011 9:09:35)

Yes that is pretty poorly done.
Before deciding to square up the end, accurately measure the distance from nut face to 12th fret centre , from 12th to peak of saddle and from nut to first fret.
Now also check with an accurate tuner whether the fretted notes are sharp or flat at the first fret and by how much. and also check whether the string height is right at both the first fret and the 12th.
Might seem like a lot of fuss, but it is easy to make things worse when it comes to innotation.



Ruphus -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 12 2011 11:35:28)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JuanDaBomb

(right now all the strings' 12th fretted notes are noticeable sharp compared to the harmonics).


That seems to correspond to how the nut is tilted ( = shortening scale length / making fretted notes sharp ). From there, I would not expect the nut edge to be shifting beyound appropriate spacing, when you erect the nut. With the edge rather likely ending up within tolerance / leaving you with a bit overhead to file on, in case of adjusting ( prolonging scale length ) was needed after erection.

And even if erecting the nut was to be shifting the edge beyound required scale length; straightening out the slot and inserting a snag fitting new nut that shall fully contact at the base, should be worth the efforts. Even if the nut needed to be made protruding laterally at the top to compensate for hypothetically extended scale length.

As it seems now the base of the nut appears to have only contact in places, possibly reducing performance of what I deem as "vibrating unit".
And intonation is crucial anyway. When set accurately, making for a fundamental difference in terms of lushness, separation, harmony and inspiration.
Accurate and not-so-accurate intonation make a very different beast of the very same guitar.

Should you be going for it anyway, I would recommend to be really meticulous ( possibly including the saddle too ) about it. ( While using a fresh set of your prefered strings ).
And if possible to get a hold of a strobe tuner for the procedure, just the better.

Ruphus



estebanana -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 12 2011 17:38:51)

Juan, I sent you a message. Bring it by I can help you.

Stephen



Steve Wright -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 12 2011 21:52:58)

I would like to say I have never seen anything as bad - but recently had a guitar brought to me and this was one of the problems. I agree with Rufus, you need to take measurements. My guess would be that the "nut end" of the fretboard is correct and doesn't need cutting and that the nut will need the bottom angled to fit. Basically a new nut. If your not sure about this take it to Stephen as offered. You won't regret it.



estebanana -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 12 2011 22:27:00)

It's simple, the nut is not wide enough for the slot. It needs a new nut



JuanDaBomb -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 24 2011 9:21:09)

Thanks for all the advice, guys! I appreciate it. Most likely I'll take it to The Banana one of these days, have him look at it [:D]



jshelton5040 -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 24 2011 14:16:25)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

It's simple, the nut is not wide enough for the slot. It needs a new nut

Stephen, put your glasses on an look at the picture again. The end of the fingerboard is not cut at 90 degrees. Since it's not perpendicular to the neck I should think it prudent to do some measurements to verify accurate nut placement. It may require more than just a new nut to make the guitar play properly. Of course if the rest of the guitar is built with the same precision as the nut slot who can say whether the frets and bridge are located properly so measurements may be inconclusive.



estebanana -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 24 2011 19:01:40)

Yes, true there is an angle, but there's more wrong than just a problem with the end of the fingerboard. A photo of an object can read different ways and until you actually see it in person you can't make any real analysis of what the correction should be.

I think the nut is too small, the headstock veneer is cut at the wrong angle and the end of the fingerboard is undercut. None of that is difficult to fix, but unless you eyeball it in person you can't decide on a course of action. Cameras can distort things.



Gimar Yestra -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 24 2011 20:59:21)

hey I read u have a barbero plan?? do you have it digital



Gimar Yestra -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 24 2011 21:01:54)

if you look closely you cans till see a little bit of ebony fretboard where the 90 degree angle would be, looks like someone went at it with a file or so and messed up.

aqnd i agree with stephen, sometimes its realy difficult to get a proper vieuw on things from just a picture. I personally never take on repair work without seeing the guitar in person first.



estebanana -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 24 2011 22:03:12)

quote:

hey I read u have a barbero plan?? do you have it digital

me?



estebanana -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 24 2011 22:08:27)

One forensic diagnosis I can get from that photo is that whomever worked on that nut/fingerboard area used a tool and method that blew out the grain on the side of the fingerboard and the bottom of the nut slot.

You should bring it over Juan....don't be shy, I'm only mean, overbearing and despotic online. [:D]



HemeolaMan -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 25 2011 2:46:08)

Grimar I have a digital barbero plan.



Gimar Yestra -> RE: Can you look at my nut please? (Sep. 25 2011 11:59:39)

@ stephen, I ment the original topic started, he stated he got as barbero plan, but maybe I misread it :D

@ hemeolaman, I send u a PM



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