Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Full Version)

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KMMI77 -> Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 19 2011 7:05:28)

I have always resisted doing gigs with backing tracks or loop pedals etc.. But i think it's time i just submit and do it.

I've noticed that the other gigging guitarists here are using them and it's hard to compete with such a full sound. Most of the gigs i do these days are solo due to clients budget.

1 and a 1/2 hours is fine, but trying to keep 3 hours of solo flamenco guitar interesting with no palmas or backing is no easy task. As sad as i find it, I've noticed when someone creates a simple loop and plays over it people seem to think it's amazing[:D]


My plan is to purchase the boss rc 30 loop station. With it i can create my own palmas loops live at the gig as well as whatever guitar stuff i want to create. I will also create some backing tracks with drums, base and rhythm guitar for my compositions, whack them on an mp3player and run it though my mixer. I plan to alternate with guitar solos and only use the backing or loop station every third tune or something.

It will make my job at gigs so much easier, and I think it may actually be fun. I intend to see how creative i can be with them. Do you think this is a good move?

Who else here uses loop pedals or backing tracks for flamenco guitar gigs?



ralexander -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 19 2011 11:47:14)

I understand the hesitation, but I say go for it! It's not exactly "puro" to use a looper, but if it sounds good and is entertaining then you're doing your job well. Plus, it's not a lot of fun to have to share your paycheck [:D] Oh, and I think you're smart by planning to not use it for every song.



KMMI77 -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 19 2011 12:58:04)

Thanks for the reply ralexander,

I want to try to use it in a tasteful way. I'm sure it will take a fair bit of practice to feel comfortable with the loop station.

The problem with solo flamenco guitar is having enough suitable material for a non flamenco venue. It's different when I have other musicians to interact with. The vibe is easier to keep up. I don't feel comfortable playing too much heavy flamenco at most gigs.I figure with a loop station it will be easier to control the vibe. For example, I could play a taranta, then loop a nice arpeggio in b minor and solo over it to finish. I think this will allow me to feel more comfortable with the heavier stuff knowing that i can bring the mood up again.

Hopefully it will be good for the people who are out trying to have a nice time as well.



marduk -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 20 2011 4:08:56)

i prefer the digitech jamman loop pedal. mainly because it has 2 hours recording instead of the 16 minutes that boss pedals have. so you can put all your backing tracks straight onto it (no need for the mp3 player) the only downside of it is there is no battery pack

I own one if you have any questions about them (mine is actually for sale)



Guest -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 20 2011 8:13:29)

sounds a great idea...think your reasons make alot sense. [cents?]

borrowed a pedal awhile ago and used it on a few pieces at a solo gig, [brazilian and flamenco type pieces]...seemed to be appreciated by the audience...but have'nt really gone any further with it.

An Australian guy , Adam Page plays some great music with saxophone and ukelele looped....also a london guitarist Matt Stevens plays tasteful loop based music.....

seems a whole world of loop culture and fans out there... with some great music created... particularly live...
could be a new creative medium for you...



the digitech's are worth a look at as well...seemed easier to use...



ToddK -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 20 2011 9:24:10)

Loop pedals are great and fun. I have the Boss one, the big one.

For flamenco, i think its cool to use one, though you wanna create the loops live.

Loading it up with pre'recorded backing tracks is for the birds imho. Save the
backing tracks for videos and recordings.
Live gigs should be live.
TK



KMMI77 -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 20 2011 11:45:39)

Gday Marduk,

I don't know much about the alternative loop stations available. I like that i can plug a mic into the rc 30 and record palmas live at gigs. I don't have a di in any of my guitars so loop stations without mic in will be no good. Does yours have a mic in?

Hi AlVal,

Thanks for the tip. What is the equivalent from digitech? Is it a similar price? Any better features? The one problem i see with the rc 30 is that the first loop created defines the length of any additional loops. Do you know any that get around this problem?

Hey todd,

I agree that it is better to play everything live. It's the issue i mention above that creates the problem. If i have a long chord progression for example, i would have to do palmas the length of the form to record a rhythm track over it. Does you big boss one overcome this problem?



rombsix -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 20 2011 12:11:34)

quote:

big boss


[:D]



orsonw -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 20 2011 12:27:18)

Generally I'm a ludite and prefer just live instruments but I'm sure with your good musical sensibility you could do something good with technology.

I think looping would be better than a backing track because it is still live, dynamic and dangerous! There would be some limitations but maybe this would inspire new creativity?

Here's Son of Dave, he plays blues with live looping and I think loses none of the soul or energy.




Guest -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 20 2011 12:35:21)

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-104479.html
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-881496.html
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/stomp-box/272773-digitech-jamman-solo-boss-rc3.html
might be useful to look at
as someone who is'nt tech savvy i found the interface on the DT jamman easier to manipulate, control and create more than one loop at a time....
basic stuff for me however...
think the owners of these stations have more experience than i....

found this from the 70's
robert fripp used to carry around two revox tape recorders and create an actual tape loop between the two machines...the first guitar looper?



KMMI77 -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 21 2011 11:22:42)

Thanks for the links orsonw and AlVal,

I checked them out.

I read through those forums ALVal and they seem to like the rc30. They also mention the boomerang III. It looks cool but doesn't have a mic cable input like the rc30 :-(

I just came home from another 3 hour solo gig. I was imagining using the looper and capturing the noisy coffee grinder in the loop [:D] GGRRRRRRIIIINNNNDDD!!!



Guest -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 21 2011 11:29:41)

quote:

Thanks for the links

excellent
good to get the vibe from others...
nice borrowing the loop stations but cant see myself going there....way too much going on for me...but think it would be great to hear someone with your skill and musicianship use them...
quote:

I was imagining using the looper and capturing the noisy coffee grinder in the loop

that would be great performance art! the potential for environmental factors could be an untapped genre...
best of luck and hope to hear some stuff soon...



orsonw -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 21 2011 11:44:24)

"..they have no real idea of what it is that I'm about to do but dedicating this performance to the proposition of hazard, neither do I."
I like Robert Fripp's attitude.



KMMI77 -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 21 2011 12:00:19)

quote:

i prefer the digitech jamman loop pedal. mainly because it has 2 hours recording instead of the 16 minutes that boss pedals have.


BTW, The rc 30 allows three hours record time with internal memory.



marduk -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 21 2011 13:59:57)

I didnt know about the rc 30 that looks like a big improvement of the rc 20 (i got my digitech a while back now)


yes the digitech has a mic in, a guitar plug in and an aux (small plug) and a setting so that you can capture 2 of them at once.

the rc 30 seems newer and might have better updates, but in the past the only thing i preferred about the boss ones were the battery packs, and the feature that lets you reverse a loops as far as functionality, i personally preferred the digitech when i was using them

with the question about the first loop setting the time for the rest of them. i think thats the case with all of the models out there (even the software one in guitar rig seems to be that way) I have only played with the boss ones a bit so i cant give the best review of it, but with the digitech it lets you select the time signature and tempo, or you can tap the tempo out with your foot. there is a metronome and a flashing light. I had best results when I used the "auto record feature" which means you hit the pedal and the light flashes, then it automatically records when you make a sound (its pretty accurate and often gives better results than using your foot to come in)



edguerin -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 21 2011 16:45:05)

[8|] Can somebody please explain the difference between
loops
backing tracks
live loops

Sounds fun, but I have no idea what you guys are talking about [&:]



marduk -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 21 2011 17:25:26)

a loop is when you record a small chunk of audio (like a single compas of palmas) and have the device "loop" it so that it plays continually (and sounds like a palmas track)

a backing track is a pre recorded rhythm section (in the form of a whole song) that you play over

a live loop is what the loop station lets you do, you can hit record, play some rhythm then hit the loop button. what you played will loop and you can start playing a second track (and keep recording more layers)



edguerin -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Aug. 21 2011 17:47:55)

thanks marduk !
I was getting backing tracks, loops and live recording mixed up [:)]



keith5555uk -> RE: Backing tracks and loop pedals with flamenco (Oct. 24 2013 15:21:48)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KMMI77

I have always resisted doing gigs with backing tracks or loop pedals etc.. But i think it's time i just submit and do it.

I've noticed that the other gigging guitarists here are using them and it's hard to compete with such a full sound. Most of the gigs i do these days are solo due to clients budget.

1 and a 1/2 hours is fine, but trying to keep 3 hours of solo flamenco guitar interesting with no palmas or backing is no easy task. As sad as i find it, I've noticed when someone creates a simple loop and plays over it people seem to think it's amazing[:D]


My plan is to purchase the boss rc 30 loop station. With it i can create my own palmas loops live at the gig as well as whatever guitar stuff i want to create. I will also create some backing tracks with drums, base and rhythm guitar for my compositions, whack them on an mp3player and run it though my mixer. I plan to alternate with guitar solos and only use the backing or loop station every third tune or something.

It will make my job at gigs so much easier, and I think it may actually be fun. I intend to see how creative i can be with them. Do you think this is a good move?

Who else here uses loop pedals or backing tracks for flamenco guitar gigs?


I try to play acoustic 6 string, love the sound of flamenco not tried yet .... but I also play bass in a covers band and the best device we ever found for playing intro's and backing tracks is a foot controlled mp3 & wav player .... www.baktrakpedal.co.uk



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