Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Full Version)

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Andy Culpepper -> Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jun. 28 2011 20:54:37)

you all know what I'm talking about..




Gimar Yestra -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jun. 29 2011 0:56:50)

I love this very distinctive sound u hear when using a scraper, chisel or plane blade that is properly sharpened.



JuanDaBomb -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jun. 29 2011 22:00:00)

Pretty rosette [:)]



estebanana -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 1 2011 0:06:46)

Why do I feel like I just watched porn narrated by NPR?



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 1 2011 2:34:41)

Yeah Gimar, that's why I left the sound in... it's music to my ears

Gracias Juan!

Stephen, I laughed my ass off at that one. You must like scrapers almost as much as I do. That lady really ruined the money shot at the end though.



estebanana -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 1 2011 17:52:33)

I love scrapers, but don't tell John I did that same job this morning with a random orbital sander. Let's let him keep thinking I'm a Neanderthal.

But yeah the sharp scraper can get you out of a lot of scrapes. It's an amazing tool and probably after rock smashers its the next tool stone tool users made.



jshelton5040 -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 2 2011 18:52:31)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I love scrapers, but don't tell John I did that same job this morning with a random orbital sander. Let's let him keep thinking I'm a Neanderthal.


I would never use a power sander on a rosette. I start with a razor sharp plane and then use a hand scraper (no smearing colors into the topwood). Once it's flush with the top we cover it with zpoxy which eliminates filling any pores during finishing.

By the way, please don't accuse me of thinking. At my age being able to think is just a fond memory.



estebanana -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 2 2011 19:36:34)

See, I just tricked you in to talking neanderthal talk!

Well ordinarily I would not have use a random orbital sander, but this one was "special".



Stephen Eden -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 4 2011 8:08:16)

I stick mine through a sander thicknesser. Dont get me wrong I love a sharp scraper I guess I am just lazy. Or perhaps it is one reason why I last year I built 22 guitars [;)]



jshelton5040 -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 4 2011 15:27:24)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SEden

I stick mine through a sander thicknesser. Dont get me wrong I love a sharp scraper I guess I am just lazy. Or perhaps it is one reason why I last year I built 22 guitars [;)]

I tried that but even with new sandpaper it still drags and imbeds the color from the rosette into the topwood which requires scraping to get it out.



Stephen Eden -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 4 2011 15:45:43)

When you did it did you sand the top too? I only get colour run when I sand the top by hand and even then if you sand only from the top on the rose and clean the paper every stroke you should be able to get it clean. I ge the same from the bindings too So I sand the same way.



estebanana -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 4 2011 16:55:48)

I usually run them though the drum sander with 100 grit paper to get them in the thickness zone and if it is clean and sharp paper I don't get any color grinding into the top. Then few a passes with a scraper over the rosette and it's done. Then I fine hand sand the top with a cork backed block.

I usually finish the top and then flip it over and work the thickness a bit with plane and then hand sand it. I use the drum sander as much as possible to save my arm.

All those fancy multi colored plane shavings you can make are impressive, but I'm over that. I don't have time or interest to sit around ****ing off with plane shavings.



Peter Tsiorba -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 4 2011 17:51:20)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

...I don't have time or interest to sit around ****ing off with plane shavings.


That's ironic. I used to have a nice 22/44 performax drum sander. I no longer have it, and sold the thing. I timed, just for fun, to see how long it takes to plane/detail, versus sand/detail. For me, it takes about the same amount of time. Except that now, I have less dust, more pretty shavings, and a much stronger back ;)



estebanana -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 4 2011 18:17:32)

Tennis elbow- tendonitis, I switched to the drum sander some years ago to keep from inflaming it, but I've gotten much better and I plane more now.

I do find it much more sensitive and essential to final thickness with a plane, you have more control over flexible the top is and where.



jshelton5040 -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 4 2011 23:32:57)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SEden

When you did it did you sand the top too? I only get colour run when I sand the top by hand and even then if you sand only from the top on the rose and clean the paper every stroke you should be able to get it clean. I ge the same from the bindings too So I sand the same way.

Stephen,

Yes I was sanding the top at the same time. I suspect it's the sealant I use on the rosette that instantly clogs the sand paper and ends up dragging the color into the top wood. It's not a big deal to me since it only takes a few minutes to do it by hand.

Many years ago when I was young and had mountains of energy we made 50 guitars in a two year span. Of course we were only getting $200.00 each so it wasn't like we were getting rich.



estebanana -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 5 2011 2:05:02)

quote:

Many years ago when I was young and had mountains of energy we made 50 guitars in a two year span.


What's ironic is that I or perhaps we, figure out how to make good ones after the youthful energy is gone. Not that I'm that old, but I feel it now. I used to be able to spend 14 hours in the shop and go drinking then do the same the next day/

Youth is wasted on the young.



estebanana -> [Deleted] (Jul. 5 2011 3:19:52)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jul. 5 2011 3:27:35



Stephen Eden -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 6 2011 11:13:34)

Ahh the 14 hour day! my time as an apprentice were great! Delivering Pizza was a great job.

It's a regular 9-5 job for me Just incase you thought all I did was make guitars. I am just very automated in the processes that can be. I studied statistics at uni and my personal favourite part was Logistics which really helps in manufacturing. The other part is that none of the jobs are particually challenging. I know that just about anyone can build a guitar as it's all very basic wood work skills required. It's just making good ones that takes skill and a good ear.

I am just very lucky to have some extremely talented players not just playing my guitars but also actively trying to promote me at the same time. So everything I make is already sold. Just incase you thought I am not making a decent guitar.



jshelton5040 -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 6 2011 16:21:19)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SEden

I am just very lucky to have some extremely talented players not just playing my guitars but also actively trying to promote me at the same time. So everything I make is already sold. Just incase you thought I am not making a decent guitar.

SEden,
I've never had the slightest doubt that you make an excellent instrument.

The thought of making guitars even 8 hours a day gives me a headache. I can't concentrate that hard for more than 3-4 hours. Right now we have four in the works that are all sold but since it's summer we only spend a few hours a week working on guitars. Most of our time is spent keeping several acres mowed, tending the garden and completing summer projects. It seems to clear the mind to get away from the guitar work for a month or two.



Stephen Eden -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 6 2011 16:35:36)

Ahh John I know you really spend most of your time Fishing! I agree that the concetration side can be really tough and I hope to be in your position one day!! Mowing the acres!! Unfortunatly I have bills to pay and can't work any less.

It was just the way Stephen said it meant I felt I had to back my self up a bit. Before the whole quality not quantity debate came into play.



jshelton5040 -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 6 2011 22:19:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SEden

Ahh John I know you really spend most of your time Fishing! I agree that the concetration side can be really tough and I hope to be in your position one day!! Mowing the acres!! Unfortunatly I have bills to pay and can't work any less.


Stephen,

I am well aware how fortunate I am to live in this lovely place. It is recompense for the 15 years I wasted doing computer work when I should have been building guitars full time. Fishing by the way is a winter sport around here unless you're a trout fisherman. I don't waste my time with trout since they pale in comparison to Steelhead (anandromous Rainbow trout) or salmon.



estebanana -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 8 2011 0:42:32)

Oh no, I was not trying to make it sound like anyone made any bad guitars, no no....it was more about how knowledge accumulates over the years and you see and hear more the longer you work.

I was only lamenting that I wish I had 25 year old energy and my current knowledge in the same body. If anyone can relate to that.



Stephen Eden -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 8 2011 13:13:16)

Ahh the classic case of I wish I started earlier. I've still got some energy left in me. I hope by the time that goes I have a big enough reputation to continue building at a slower rate but for more money.



estebanana -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 8 2011 15:16:30)

I started in 1979 in my junior year of high school in a violin shop, but I did a bunch of stuff between then and now. More like I wish I had gone to violin making school in Cremona or Salt Lake after high school, but I had another agenda that was about surfing around the world.



Stephen Eden -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 8 2011 16:53:22)

I wish I had started earlier and not bothered with College or Uni. Or at least went for a surf around the world!! But then I think if I hadn't done all that stuff would I still have gone into this. Probably not. I guess there are many things we would all like to have tried, done, or do at some point but you can never do it all.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 8 2011 17:18:56)

quote:

I wish I had started earlier and not bothered with College or Uni.


Same here! I only did one year but I'm kicking myself every day for wasting all that money that I could have put into a lifetime supply of quality Euro spruce [:D]



jshelton5040 -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 8 2011 18:38:24)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SEden

I wish I had started earlier and not bothered with College or Uni. Or at least went for a surf around the world!! But then I think if I hadn't done all that stuff would I still have gone into this. Probably not. I guess there are many things we would all like to have tried, done, or do at some point but you can never do it all.

I don't regret my time in university at all. Think of all the women and drinking I would have missed out on. Not to mention the outrageous parties I attended with my friends in the art department. I still have several close and valued friends that I met in college. What better thing to do with your life when you're young, empty headed and bursting with testosterone. I may have even learned something but it's been so long ago that I can't remember.



estebanana -> RE: Too much negativity, time to appreciate a beautiful tool (Jul. 8 2011 18:53:14)

I'm afraid I'm with Shelton on this one, I did not go to college until I was 25 or 27,....can't quite remember. But I wish instead of going to grad school I would have done something else. I got much more action in undergrad college and learned much more than in grad school. I thought you had to get a masters degree to advance in life, but since then I've become pretty dim in my view of academia.

I've learned about many many things as a byproduct of guitar making and research to do it. However I was not empty headed as a college student, I had a noggin full of poerrrtree and other stuff with which to attract the smart college women. I still have it, but the women usually outsmart me now......



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