Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Full Version)

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Haithamflamenco -> Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (May 31 2011 9:40:41)

Hola amigos,

I need some tip from you gitanos,

well, if you remeber long time ago maybe in 2007, i was searching about buyuing a flamenco hand made guitar,

I made lots of search , and I asked plenty with the small budget i had,

I decide to let Jeff make me one, and he did make me a great Blanka,

any way, his blanca with 12 holes bridge, I was worring about how should i change the strings,

the basses where fine and easy, but the trubles with the trebels,

If I tie them the way I tie the basses they get loose , Jeff tied them in a way that they dont get loose, I couldnt figure out how,

CAN YOU HELP ME GUYS??? I SEPNT MORE THEN 2 HOURS TRYING TO TIE THE TREBELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![:@][:@][:@][:@]

If have any video, or any one can make me a video to how to tie strings with 12 holes for the trebels so they dont get lose, that will be great,

Ole

[;)]



gerundino63 -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (May 31 2011 9:44:34)

If you do the trebbles, use a knot at the end.



XXX -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (May 31 2011 9:46:55)

err... didnt you say in the other post that you were an engineer? [:D]



KMMI77 -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (May 31 2011 9:53:03)

I use a cigarette lighter to create a bubble on the end of the treble strings. Just move the end of the string into the flame. It will create a bubble as the string melts. Take it out of the flame and it will harden in a few seconds. No more slipping and no negative effects on the string. Practice on an old string first and don't touch it till it hardens and cools. Also be careful not to bring it into contact with anything until it cools and hardens either. especially the guitar.



orsonw -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (May 31 2011 12:19:07)

Here's a link to a tutorial with photographs.

http://www.jameslisterguitars.co.uk/ListerGuitars/12-hole_tie_block.htm

When tied properly I find that the trebles never slip so melting the end isn't neccessary.



Haithamflamenco -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (May 31 2011 14:33:47)

thanks guys,



Deniz,

quote:

err... didnt you say in the other post that you were an engineer?



Deniz, belive me, I may be an engineer in other field , but in flamenco I am very very very small student[;)]



at_leo_87 -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (May 31 2011 18:16:34)

burning treble strings smell horrible. [:o]

i used to do one loop for the basses, two for B and G and three for the high E.



BarkellWH -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (May 31 2011 20:19:51)

Burning the end of the trebles to create a bubble marks one as a real amateur. What in American baseball would be called "bush league." No self-respecting flamenco guitarist would do such a thing. Imagine if you were performing for an audience and one of your trebles broke. Would you sit on the stage and re-string your guitar by placing a lighter at the end of the string?

Learn to do it the correct way by looping and tying the strings on the 12-hole bridge. It's not really hard once you get the hang of it.

Cheers,

Bill



KMMI77 -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (May 31 2011 21:13:46)

Leo, Keep your nose away, Lol

quote:

Burning the end of the trebles to create a bubble marks one as a real amateur. What in American baseball would be called "bush league." No self-respecting flamenco guitarist would do such a thing. Imagine if you were performing for an audience and one of your trebles broke. Would you sit on the stage and re-string your guitar by placing a lighter at the end of the string?


Bill, What nonsense



Patrick -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (May 31 2011 22:26:00)

Putting a ball on the end of the trebles has nothing to do with the string slipping or not. It just gives you some insurance that if it does, it won’t put a big gouge in the top. It will slip to the knot and stop.

The back of the tie block is what holds the stings on. Do it like the pictures and it won’t slip.

If putting a ball on the trebles is for amateurs, than I am the biggest armature here. Do you need the ball? No but in my opinion if you don’t put it on, it’s just a matter of time before you screw up a top. I talk from experience. It takes just seconds to do it.

But hey, if you want to look like a pro….don’t put them on. [:D]



BarkellWH -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (May 31 2011 23:14:58)

quote:

If putting a ball on the trebles is for amateurs, than I am the biggest armature here. Do you need the ball? No but in my opinion if you don’t put it on, it’s just a matter of time before you screw up a top. I talk from experience. It takes just seconds to do it.


That, of course, is the purpose of learning to properly loop and tie the strings. Done correctly, they will not slip and damage the top.

Cheers,

Bill



Patrick -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 3:03:10)

quote:

That, of course, is the purpose of learning to properly loop and tie the strings. Done correctly, they will not slip and damage the top.


Until they do.



Yojimbo -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 4:16:20)

I know you guys don't like Ruben around here, but he has a video on how to do this.

For the trebles:




Patrick -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 5:11:51)

Well now that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen in a long time. A simple knot at the back of the tie block is all you need. You don’t need (or want) all those wraps on top of the block. It just invites slippage.



gerundino63 -> [Deleted] (Jun. 1 2011 7:31:00)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jun. 1 2011 7:45:57



HolyEvil -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 9:22:57)

check out my old thread. Anders posted a very good picture

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=109111&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=12%2Chole&tmode=&smode=&s=#109644



Yojimbo -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 12:16:04)

quote:

Well now that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen in a long time. A simple knot at the back of the tie block is all you need. You don’t need (or want) all those wraps on top of the block. It just invites slippage


Wrong - your post is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a long time.

Do you really think I would post that if there is slippage?



bursche -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 13:38:40)

uhm...there's slippage...



Morante -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 14:54:37)

Eres amigo de Rubèn o sabe algo de guitarras? Porque me parece que no. Desde hace años toco una guitarra de "12 holes" sin problema. [:)]



Patrick -> [Deleted] (Jun. 1 2011 15:40:37)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jun. 1 2011 15:40:50



Patrick -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 15:41:54)

quote:

Wrong - your post is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a long time.

Do you really think I would post that if there is slippage?


Have a nice day. [:D]



BarkellWH -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 18:04:09)

I own three flamenco guitars, two with six-hole tie-blocks and one with a 12-hole tie-block, and I loop and tie the strings, both bass and trebles, without ever having had a string slip. I'm not doubting that you have had strings slip, and that they damaged the top of your guitar. My point is, looped and tied correctly, there is absolutely no reason to burn a ball at the end of the string because it will not slip in the first place. Correct looping and tying is key. And the loops don't have to look like hangman's nooses, as they do in Yojimbo's posted exercise.

Cheers,

Bill



Patrick -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 18:23:25)

Bill,

I agree one hundred percent. The ball may be overkill, but why not? It only takes a second to do and makes me happy! It’s kind of like insurance. Do you need it on your car, your house, your life, your boat? No, but I’m not willing to take the chance.

If I had a string break in a concert would I melt a ball on the end? No I would just tie on a new string and redo it on the next string change. I only change trebles every six months or so, so what’s a few seconds to melt the end?

Regards



Ron.M -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 19:32:13)

quote:

Have a nice day.


[:D][:D]


Personally, my Anders Negra is the only 12 hole tieblock guitar I have.
I just loop the string under the wrap and it doesn't slip.
No looping round and round or burning balls...

(Though (in my young days) I did have an accident in bed once lighting a girl's cigarette..ouch![8|][:D])

cheers,

Ron



odinz -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 19:47:27)

quote:

(Though (in my young days) I did have an accident in bed once lighting a girl's cigarette..ouch! )


morale is: dont smoke in bed?[:D]



Patrick -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 19:56:00)

quote:

burning balls...
[:D]



odinz -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 20:02:30)

How could i miss that one...


[:D][:D]



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 1 2011 20:16:10)

For about thirty years I looped and tied my strings without burning balls, as in the top picture here

http://tinyurl.com/3s39zf2

except I tie them so the tails go to the left, and I leave the bass tails just a little longer.

Then a first string slipped and gouged the top of my then fairly new 1991 Contreras doble tapa. The string was looped and tied the way I had been doing it for decades on a six-hole tie block. It's still the only mark on the guitar.

Ever since, I have been a bush leaguer on six-hole tie blocks.

RNJ



BarkellWH -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 2 2011 10:21:44)

quote:

Ever since, I have been a bush leaguer on six-hole tie blocks.


No sweat, Richard. I have been a bush-leaguer all my life, and in my case it has nothing to do with how I tie my guitar strings!

Cheers,

Bill



Rmn -> RE: Those 12 holes are driving me crazy - I need help!! (Jun. 7 2011 10:44:48)

how about these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/BridgeBoneBeads-Classical-Guitar-Flamenco-Folk-/290459757302?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item43a0c02af6

has anybdy tried them? any experiences?



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