santuario paco pena question (Full Version)

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rickm -> santuario paco pena question (Apr. 4 2005 23:30:10)

in this sole, in what is I guess the first falseta, there is a scale kind of run thing with pull offs, it mentions in the tab keepingthe ring finger (left hand) while playing the accompanying notes. I can play it just dandy without placing that finger, but when I try obviously i dont have the finger dexterity in the little finger for the pulls offs across three frets. Question. does anyone else have this problem and is this a standard in flamenco or is it just some little embellishment that only paco can pull off?is it worth developing the techniques as I have never seen it used quite like that before. I can do a lot of different pull off etc with that type of chording but guys this is a little much comments if you pls.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: santuario paco pena question (Apr. 5 2005 0:28:53)

I think it sounds better when you leave fingers down, and you get that semi-dissonant sound of the notes overlapping. Of course it does make it harder, but it's part of the sound, in my opinion. You can do it, and working slowly and consistently on this type of thing will help your left hand immensely!



gerundino63 -> RE: santuario paco pena question (Apr. 5 2005 8:03:01)

Hi

I agree with Miguel here, and once you manage this one, you see you need it more.

Peter



Jon Boyes -> RE: santuario paco pena question (Apr. 6 2005 8:19:36)

Like the guys said...

Haven't got the book in front of me, but I think I rember the bit you mean. Its standard Solea stuff, and yes you need that bass note held there. It gives you a bass drone and helps that nice dissonance as mike says, where the held note helps everything kind of crash into each it other. So work that pinky! [;)]

Also, pay attention to when that bass note is played - hear that separation between it and the notes on top, the bass note coming slghtly early? Thats a very typical flamenco thing, you will hear it all the time.

Jon



rickm -> RE: santuario paco pena question (Apr. 6 2005 11:46:52)

I'm glad you mentioned that, it does makes some sense, but I dont hear it on the gp tab and the way it is written is appears to be a double stop, but if that is true I will practice it like that and yes the pinky is getting a workout!



Jamey -> RE: santuario paco pena question (Apr. 6 2005 14:03:05)

I had a lot of trouble hammering and pulling off with alternate fingers while a finger in between the ones being used was planted. Eg: first and third finger hammering and pulling off while second finger is planted in something like the opening of a taranta. I don't know why, but for some reason my hand would just tense up completely. Yet, oddly enough, no problem with first and fourth finger while second and/or third finger planted. I was only able to get things working by practising it VERY slowly for a long time. It took (and is still taking me) about a year to get anywhere with it.

I seem to learn the techniques a little backwards. Like learning the more complicated rasgueados first and finding the "easier" ones very difficult (still do), a clean tremolo but struggling with double arpeggios......I dunno....just backwards.

I've all too often been in a hurry to work my way through a piece. It wasn't until I really started to force myself to slow down and be patient (at the best of times I have no patience) that I actually started to improve.

I have no discipline [:@]



Miguel de Maria -> RE: santuario paco pena question (Apr. 6 2005 14:33:16)

One thing that I am finding useful for hammer-ons, especially the ones complicated because you are holding down other fingers or (dios mio!) a barre, is something I learned from CGer Eduardo Fernandez' book. An experiment:

Hold your left hand out flat, palm down. Now flip it palm up quickly and lightly, paying attention to your forearm muscle near your elbow. If you are very perceptive and loose, you will detect the tiniest of sensation in this area. This sensation is almost identical to that of a good, loose, quick hammer on. If you can use your imagination and "use the sensation" to play the hammer on, you will find your hammers to be light, quick, effortless, and with that satisfying 'thwack".



rickm -> RE: santuario paco pena question (Apr. 6 2005 16:15:28)

thanks for all the good advice I'll be trying to put it together. And I do agree in the time matter. I have been playing recuerdos for about 5 yrs and now just starting to get it togethor in some meaningful sound form. Funny because I can play a 4 stroke flamenco tremelo a lot easier. Years ago I played a lot of electric and the hand positons are different and the pull offs certainly different because of the electronics and I think easier. I am still trying to put togethor pull offs on the acoustic so that is certainly part of the problem. Most pull offs in electronic music, even stuff like Hendrix is not as far reaching. tahnks again



Jon Boyes -> RE: santuario paco pena question (Apr. 7 2005 8:19:33)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gtrr66@msn.com
Years ago I played a lot of electric and the hand positons are different and the pull offs certainly different because of the electronics and I think easier. I am still trying to put togethor pull offs on the acoustic so that is certainly part of the problem.


Yes, this stuff is MUCH easier on an electric - effortless, really. How many eighties guitarists with long hair made whole careers out of widdling away with endless pull offs/hammer ons?

Anyway, to get a good pull off (..err can we use 'descending slur', thats a killer double entendre [:D]) try and see it as a rest stroke pluck with your left hand. Make sense? Practice them without the right hand playing at all. So if you were 'pulling off' from your third finger to your first, place both fingers down, and 'pluck' that third finger so that it comes to rest on the adjacent string.

Practice this and your slurs will have plenty of snap. A tiny swivel of the forearm - almost a twitch (which is what I think Mike is talking about) - helps put some wallop into slurs to.

Scott Tenant explains this stuff neatly in Pumping nylon and includes his killer 'triplet slurs' warm up exercise which he reckons is probably the most important exercise in the whole book.

Jon



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