Richard Jernigan -> RE: Spanish Revolution (May 27 2011 23:54:19)
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Hi Ruphus- quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruphus Hi Richard, What you mention there seem pillars for belief to me. Intensive and decades long news consumption and the societal principles evident by it, contradict your assumption of capitalist societies basically conducted analog to official interpretation. It widely ignores the actually firm routines of corruption and nepotism, and deems regulatory instances as fully functioning. I have extensive experience with the news media. For years I kept a copy of the Scientific American near my desk. The reason? It contained an article about the Space Surveillance Network that contained no serious errors of fact. It is the only extended article I ever read about a project I was personally familiar with that did not contain serious errors of both fact and emphasis. You base beliefs on news reports. I base mine on personal experience. quote:
Without wishful thinking however, it should be more than clear by now that revealings like with Enron do not happen because controlling institutions were effective regardless of offenders´societal and immunity level; instead experience shows us that the rare revealings on such a level will occure exclusively after disgraced offenders have been disposed for chase by their own ambience. Other than that, what happens when an inspector, police man, prosecute or judge appears to have found a clue by himself and intends to officially pursue a high caliber crime, is all to well known. He will be instructed to keep quiet and should he not obey, will be moved to another position, degraded or suspended. And of the very few cases when such a person in consequence tried to sue privately against his mute, I do not remember a single case where he would had succeeded, been rehabilitated and the actual offender in the end pursued. Do you remember any such case by chance? Of course I remember such cases being reported in the news. I never personally witnessed one. However, I have seen a number of cases where a relatively low ranking investigator uncovered irregularities, the case was pursued, and the investigator was praised and rewarded. quote:
Next, you believe that private investors would report on graft in states business. In sight of empirics that would be like saying that foxes at times will guard chicken. Something hypthetically possible, but hillarious suggestion in regard of common routines. Which are the exact opposite. I was not speaking of state business, if I understand what you mean by that. I was speaking of corporations whose shares are publicly traded, and who are required to conform to legal standards of accounting. For example, the downfall of Enron, though after a decade of successful fraud, was instigated by published reports from professional securities analysts. quote:
The corruption of states institutions is the main factor for industrial bargain. It starts with jurisdictive standards that allow usury margins despite consumer squeeze, goes on with customs regulations to demand, with the common routine of manipulated callings and downright fantasy pricings at state and community deals as steady parameter, and ends with privatizations for factually nada as we have seen them inreasingly unrolled over the past ~ 35 years. ( With the German state meanwhile creepingly deprived of more than 90% of its former properties, and I strongly suppose that it won´t be much different with the US state belongings.) Here you have veered from a discussion of fraud--illegal deception--to economic theory and philosophy. You or I may oppose the structure and operation of the government and economic system on ethical, philosophical or other grounds. But the government and economic powers may conduct these activities transparently, though we may see them as wrong. quote:
You should know much better than that, Richard; and about the completely off the ground conditions at which for instance the weapon industry deals with the US state. Or do you believe that any war plane could actually be worth 1,3 billion USD? Or artillery munition at 20 grands a piece and more? What something is worth is a value judgment that may vary from one person to another. What I assert is that in the vast majority of cases you can trace precisely where the money went, and that it was spent according to law, and not siphoned into the pockets of some evil plutocrat. I am aware of two cases of extensive accounting fraud. In both cases the money was spent on one government project that had problems, but charged to another. I emphasize that none of the money was siphoned into the pockets of corrupt officials. The money went to salaries and supplies for work to bring the problem projects to their required schedules. In one case the company got away with a moderate fine and a slap on the wrist. In the other case, a senior vice president of one of America's largest corporatios and many of his subordinates went to jail. Both cases were discovered by the government's auditors, relatively low paid individuals stationed at the companies' plants. quote:
So much about private business and its "reports" on corruption in states oragnisation. In German we´d say that´d be like shooting on one´s own foot I was speaking about the USA. I have never done business in Germany. I was active in business in the USA, the United Kingdom and France for 43 years. quote:
Then you believe that the risk with the banks loans insucrance trade was not anticipated. From what I know the model drawer who invented that sketch as well as the banking woman in London who took it and rocketed her career; not only they but pretty much every one who joined the ralley knew in advance that the whole thing had to blow up. How do you know this? From news accounts? The Americn news media reported that few if any in financial management understood the Gaussian Cupula used to evaluate risk of mortgage securities, nor how the price of previous securities was used as a proxy for the risk of individual default. For several years while we were married, my ex-wife worked for a financial institution whose chief business was instituting mortgages on private houses. I was frequently amazed by her reports of the ignorance and stupidity of the officers of the corporation. I asked my wife how such idiots could possibly remain in business. She said they just did what everyone else was doing. quote:
And how should they not? Even without a special degree in economics you would have to be brain amputated to think that such a hydra could be rotating without bearing. Precisely. quote:
Finally you support the fable of the wealthy contributing the major part on taxes by referring to wealthy friends. Of which only "some" would own hidden assets. Psycholgically alone it appears pretty incongruent that state of minds who as "top 5-10% income earners" ought to be of the can´t-get-enough mentality, could be abstaining of the plentiful official and inofficial opportiunities of bypassing default tax. First you imply that I am stupid. I assure you, that is a minority opinion. After that, you ignore the table of statistics published by the government agency that collects income tax and other payroll taxes. Next you mount an ad hominem attack upon those who have a higher than average income. I can't think of anyone in my acquaintance whose sole, or even main motivation was making money. A couple of counterexamples only. My next door neighbor is a retired veterinarian. My brother is a physician, mostly retired after a distinguished career. During my own career, when alternatives presented themselves, all other things being equal, i chose the financially advantageous one. If at age thirty you had told me how much money I would have now, i wouldn't have believed you. If you had told me that having that much money, inflation had so severely reduced its value, I wouldn't have believed that either. quote:
Further, you would have to count in the states financial contribuition earners on that level received before their profits. Did they discuss with you about communities special conditions for settling companies? About lowered tax and freely provided infra structure? About direct subsidies for alleged maintenance of employee positions? About state loans at special conditions ( and optional release over time )? At the local and state levels, which are the only ones I follow closely, these are the subject of public debate in the City Council and State Legislature. These debates are reported in the news media, as well as the individual votes of the legislators. The positions of the legislators on these issues figure in political campaighns, and at times appear to decide victory or defeat. Some see, or portray, government subsidies to industry as beneficial to the common good by helping to create jobs in the local economy. You seem to see them as theft by politicians and plutocrats. My position is somewhere in between. It appears to me that your views represent the far left of the political spectrum. That's fine with me, and I respect your positions. But I would point out that your positions, however self-evident they may seem to you, are not necessarily universal truths, nor are they seen as such by a sizable proportion of well informed people. quote:
In Germany, as I mentioned before several times, there exists no sum up position of yearly subsidies in the official budget list. Guess why? How is it in the US? Is there such defined position existing in the official household survey? No. As I pointed out, much of the industrial subsidy in the USA is appropriated by state and local government. The federal government absolutely conceals all such data as part of a diabolical plot to steal money from the poor and give it to the rich.[:@] - quote:
If you are willing to accept a discouraging reality, I am sure that you can research about the actual circumstances of tax withdraw and states budgets. The conditions reporters like of the "Spiegel" used to write about over past decades are probably also recorded on websites on the internet. ( Wasn´t there even a peripheral mentioning of the conditions in Michael Moore´s works, for an easier digestion?) I find Moore's work entertaining and informative, but I view it largely as political advocacy, not as the received gospel. Moore represents an important segment of a much broader spectrum of informed political opinion. quote:
Also, I estimate that your doughter could be a strong psyche who has faced the facts of uglyness regardless, and that exchanging with her could be informative. Eventhough I wonder how she would proceed with finding hidden assets in places of banking secret like the Caymans, the more if bunkered in annonymous foundations, as usual. My daughter had only been out of law school for a couple of years when, at a dinner party she mentioned she had taken one case of family law. Afterward I asked her about it, since she had said she would not take such cases. "It's the wife of one of the earliest vice presidents of Dell Computer Corporation." "He must have a good lawyer," I remarked. "One of the two best in town," she replied. I knew who the two were. She wasn't one of them. "So what's your situation?" I asked. "I have the best private investigator in town, and the best investigative accountant." "How did that come about?" "I guess his lawyer didn't think he had to move that fast." I assume that her investigative accountant found hidden assets, since she obtained a sizable settlement for her client. I also assumed that the details of negotiation were confidential. But if you have complete access to someone's financial records, it's not hard to track down offshore assets. The money has to go from your possession to an unreported entity. The path may be tortuous, but at some point the money disappears to an unreported entity, through an unreported transaction. This is against the law. That's why people with concealed assets pay an amount of income tax every year that corresponds to their visible lifestyle. They want to avoid an audit by the Internal Revenue Service which would readily reveal their fraud. Since that time my daughter has been Assistant Attorney General of the State of Texas. Among other duties in this job she represented the state at the Federal Circuit Court in New Orleans when she was 28 years old. For several years she was Senior Staff Attorney on the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, researching appeals, presenting cases to the nine judges of the court, and drafting decisions. Recently she has been extra busy because the state Legislature is in session. Some standing committees rely on her as a legal expert. Though she is not on the Legislature's staff, she has drafted several bills that were passed into law. I missed my regular lunch with her this week because she is now Assistant District Attorney of Williamson County. They have two major trials going on. The District Attorney is away, so she is in charge of the other prosecutors. During the court's lunch recess they confer on strategy and tactics. We remain close. Her views on the prevalence of corporate and government fraud coincide fairly closely with mine. I am certain she has no tolerance for it. A few weeks ago, we were discussing changes in society since she was in high school, and the more extensive changes since I was in high school. Topics included the influence of money on politics and the increasingly shabby treatment of their employees by corporations. I said to her, "I started to say 'money', but it's more accurate to say 'greed'. I believe greed has corrupted our political and economic systems." She didn't disagree. But all this is boring, compared to the interesting events going on in Spain. RNJ
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