NormanKliman -> RE: Solea - Rubato vs. Out of compas (Apr. 9 2011 11:24:41)
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Most of what he does is to evoke the finer moments of his brother's cante, usually with the same letras and the same way of using his voice, but without any kind of rhythmic rigor, at least not until some kind of obvious pattern emerges. Carrión will also lengthen and shorten ideas at will (especially Melchor's falsetas), so neither of them are good subjects for this kind of observation, in my opinion. Do they actually "get away with" this kind of performance? In some parts of Spain people might not notice anything wrong, but I'm very sure that in other parts people would not like it at all. In any case, my description of his art is based on what I've seen in recent years, and I'm referring to his soleás. He's now over 70 and has been very ill in these recent years, so maybe his sense of compás used to be better in the past. quote:
When you're performing the #1 rule is - don't stop. I disagree: The most important quality in these styles is the consistency of the compás and an appropriate tempo for the singer. Obviously, consistency involves not stopping, so you might be saying the same thing with different words. quote:
I have noticed the compas going out the window in quite a few very old cante recordings that i have. I just accept it for what it is, "old school heavy Flamenco with the compas out the window" How old are the recordings? Who's singing and who's accompanying? If you're talking about 78 rpm disks, there are a number of recordings of good singers accompanied by guitarists who didn't have very good technique or any sense of compás (Pepe el de La Matrona with Gaspar). Some of the better guitarists back then were contracted by record companies to hire and accompany all of the label's singers, and that can lead to undesirable situations. Of these "house" guitarists, Niño Ricardo is the only one I can think of right now who was from Andalusia, but he was still very young when he worked for Regal. In any case, you can hardly expect solid compás from certain singers. Pepe Marchena was great at some cantes but not so good at soleá and other styles (unless of course you feel otherwise). quote:
Now, I had to ask myself...who is right or wrong? A bunch of experienced Flamencos, (some Gitanos) having a juerga in the heart of Jerez... Or some pathetic "white boy" in Scotland sitting with headphones on playing the stuff back at half speed and tapping on a piece of paper with a pencil? I've seen some people mess up the compás like that, but, if we're talking about artists with good compás, I think what usually happens is that the guitarist will lose the compás and the singer will adjust to that. In my opinion, most of these artists are trying to match verse with rhythm in unusual ways but with perfect compás, and that is usually very difficult. Manuel Moneo is probably the best I've heard in that sense. I think those artists with solid compás and the guy with the pencil and headphones spent years doing the same thing in different ways, and that one should never underestimate the analytical capacity or rhythmic precision of certain gitanos, despite their appearance and demeanor. You'd be surprised to know who's studied recordings! quote:
So I've just learned to live with it and always try to play in compás myself, as I know at least this can not be wrong. Ole tú. Aside from the half compás in bulerías, that's the way to go, no matter what some people might say.
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