Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Full Version)

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ashod -> Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 2 2011 21:46:55)

Hey guys,

as some of you know, I bought a new guitar a month ago.

I had some problems with it, took it back to the shop, they just made me a new saddle wich made the playing a bit harder without correcting the buzzing problems here and there.

I wasked another shop how much they would take to do the fret work or refret it.

100€ to do the fret work.

300€ to refret.

I'm thinking of doing it myself, not to save money, since I have to buy the material, but to be sure it's done like I want it to be.

And so, here's my question :

I've checked the internet for what tools to use to do the fret work, and it seems the Diamond Fret File is what I need.

I found this : http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Shaping_and_crowning/Diamond_Fret_Files/Diamond_Fret_File.html

I'm wondering if there are any differences for the tools used in the fret work for electric guitars or flamenco? Because there are different sizes, and I'm not sure wich one to get to do an effective work.

Any advice would be welcome, but again, I really want to try and do it myself. And if I screw up, i'll pay a luthier to do it then.

Thank you



jshelton5040 -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 2 2011 22:32:50)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashod


100€ to do the fret work.

300€ to refret.


Those prices are outrageous. Find another luthier. Cleaning the fingerboard and touching up and polishing the frets is something we include in every repair job at no extra charge. We charge less than half that for a refret.



ashod -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 2 2011 22:39:27)

That's good to know! Thanks for the info John.

Could you tell me what you use to file the frets? Will the tool I linked work good for me? I'm really motivated to do it myself, I just want to have the correct tools to try and make it happen.



rodpacheco -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 2 2011 22:45:03)

Hey ashod,

Well, Mr. Shelton is right! As for the tools, there's another file, that I think gives more control. I would advice a high grit(above 300), since it takes less material. But it is a tricky job. Keep reading articles from STEMAC, and check out the different files, and their fret-rocker, the frets are checked in groups of 3, etc. The tools mostly work for electric guitar, bass or classical or flamenco, I think you only should pay attention to the size of your frets, so you can get the file that fits that particular countour, for example, wide , medium or narrow fretwire.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Shaping_and_crowning/Diamond_Fret_Files/Offset_Diamond_Fret_File.html
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Leveling/Fret_Rocker.html


Rodrigo Pacheco @ Delirio Hand-made Guitars



estebanana -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 2:14:28)

The going price for a refret is between 250.00 and 450.00 dollars, but it depends on which kind of guitar it is. A guitar with a bound fret board will cost much more. I've never seen a flamenco guitar with bound fret board so the lower end would apply.

A complete fret service - leveling and crowing of the frets, adjust the truss rod (on steel string) and includes adjusting the nut and saddle.
Retailing for about 130.00 to 165.00 in my area. But partial fret service work can be anywhere from 60.00 to 120.00 depends on what has to be done.

But often repairers will check over the action and clean the fingerboard, polish the frets as a matter of pride for the instrument to leave the shop looking good. Leveling and recrowning frets is usually charged for, although sometimes a little filing here or there to clean up a fret or three gets thrown in. A lot of it depends on how much work the customer brings in over the year. If they bring a lot they get more freebies.

These are the current retail prices in this area. Just FWI



Jeff Highland -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 2:31:23)

I really like using diamond crowning files like the ones you linked to.
You do realise that you need to level the frets along the fretboard first?
The crowning file is only used afterwards to reestablish the rounded shape of the fret top.



ashod -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 7:00:40)

Rodrigo, Stephen and Jeff, thanks for your valuable input.

Rodrigo : I will measure to see what suits me best for the files, like you said.

Stephen : It doesn't bother to pay 300 euros to refret a guitar and get a perfect job done.
But the shop where I bought the guitar, which is one of the best in Paris, has 2 master luthiers there, the father (65 years old), and the son (35 years old). (They actually come only one day a week).
The problem is, they're classical guitar luthiers. And even though when we spoke, they understood the importance of having a low setup for a flamenco guitar, they just told me that highering the saddle was the way to go.
I'm guessing they did this so they don't have to do the fret work for free (since I bought the Hermanos sanchis from them only a month ago and have 1 year warranty).
The other guitar maker I visited looked more like a businessman to me. He said 100€ for adjusting the frets. But in my case, I should just refret and pay 300€, because the frets look strange to him.... So all he wants is screw me around.

That's when I decided to do things myself. I just can't trust people who're just interested by the money....
(BTW, I read your blog a few weeks back, I liked your adventures in Texas![:D])

Jeff : Yes, the info I found says I have to level the frets along the fretboard first. I do have a few questions :

The info I found says I need a 12inch radius wood or metal piece to do the work. I'm guessing this doesn't apply to flamenco or classical guitars, since the fretboard is plane? What tool would you recommend to do this work?

And 2nd question : My guitar, which is brand new, has peculiar frets. The frets height is higher at bass Mi string and tapers down lower and closer to the board when we get to the bottom Mi string.

How can I do the get all the frets planar and parallel to the fretboard? I know it's the leveling part, but how do I work it so only the higher fret parts are flattened to the already very low level of the lower end of the frets?

Please tell me if I'm not clear so I post pictures.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 8:11:42)

When working with frets, the most important tool is NOT the file, but meassuring tools, so that you know what you are doing.
A long straightedge to control relief and a fret rocker to control single frets will do that and then you need a file or two to file across the frets and a small file to finish the fret ends. And of course a radiused fret file or a good 3 corner file to finish the frets of nicely. Steel wool, very fine emery cloth and some acid free oil. And here we go.



ashod -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 8:45:48)

Thank you Anders.

I understand your point. The file could be diamond or metal, the most important part is measuring.
I actually have my very first, cheap guitar which I buchered 3 years ago. I wanted to try out a fretless guitar so I ripped out its frets like a Lion would rip some gazelles tripes...

I'm thinking of refretting this guitar to try the tools and learn the process before butchering my 1500 euro guitar.

I will start this process this week. Hopefully I will find all the tools near my place and won't have to buy this :
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Shaping_and_crowning/Essential_Fretting_Kit.html



XXX -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 8:58:33)

There must be one flamenco luthier in Paris?



ashod -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 9:13:56)

Hey Deniz,

I haven't found one on the street where there are all the luthiers, be it guitar violin or other instruments. This is truly the street held by all the luthiers. But the ones I met were all businessmen, and that is what motivates me to take things into hand my own hands.



mezzo -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 9:26:11)

Try to contact Joel Laplane he's from Marseille but he use to go to Paris from time to time.



True blue -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 9:43:46)

Hey there, new here but just felt like I would chime in with my two cents. I'm by no means an expert, so if I'm off key please correct me.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Frets/D35Refret/D35refret1.html

frank ford's website on re-fretting, done on martin but same principles apply.
I hope to god you've already found this website if your serriously considering doing your own fretwork. Really, there's tons more information there on all sorts of repair technique.

There's also a nice 10 page article based on a live lecture/demonstration he gave at the GAL convention. You can order the back issue from the Gal website fora few bucks and it's pretty comprehensive and should answer most of your questions.
AMERICAN LUTHERIE #50
Summer 1997
"How Frank Frets by Frank Ford"
BRB5 p.60 AL#50

You don't need to spend a bunch of money on gimmicky stew mac tools to do a refret.
What you really need is:
- a couple of mill pattern bastard files that have been been ground off on the edge.
- roll of tape, hide glue, sand paper, a bit of steel wool
- any old 24 inch rigid art store ruler (if your getting really neurotic about it you can check it against a plane of glass)
- a flat plane body
- a modified soldering iron
- ball peen hammer and a small piece of steel a small lead weight
- some fret nippers/pullers
-odds and ends calipers, feeler gauges)
-most of the above could be scavenged for under 50 dollars, total.

The other question is it worth it to you? you could f**k up your guitar, fretting is not a skill you're gonna learn overnight, there's lots of things that can go wrong and if your at the point of asking "what files do I need to do this right" it more then likely will. There's alot of subtlety going on between the nut the bridge, the frets the relief in the neck, just working on the frets might not fix your problem.

Best of luck, do diligence.



ashod -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 10:05:14)

Hey mezzo, thanks for the contact. I'll give him a call to know when he is in Paris and if I can show him the guitar.

True blue, thanks for your input.

I'm well aware of all the links between the nut, saddle, frets and fretboard.
I'm not a luthier, and haven't build anything. But I read, question professionals and understand what they're saying.

I just never tried to file anything else then a few saddle and nuts.
Since I have my cheap guitar that is actually fretless, it will be a good practice to refret it and do all the steps.

Maybe it will teach me I'm not good at it. Maybe I'll understand enough to decide and pay a pro. Or maybe I'll get the courage to work on my new guitar.

But I have to try to know. I don't think I'll find a luthier who will put as much effort as me to get the guitar perfect, just because it's not his guitar and he makes it for money. When you have to do something everyday, I'm sure you know alot more about and work better and faster, but for a no name guitarist with a mere 1500 euros guitar, the pro won't work his ass off to get it perfect.
I'm pretty sure there are still honest people who are perfecionist, but the people I met were just interested by money...

That is why i'm willing to buy and work it myself. Again, I may come back on what I said, but I have to try it first.



estebanana -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 17:38:07)

Ashod,

I have a friend in Paris who is a very fine amateur guitar maker. By amateur I mean he makes fantastic guitars, but lives on a pension so he does not have to support himself with guitars. I'm sure he knows of luthiers who he can recommend so you would have more choices of who you can go see. He might even be interested in giving you some lessons in fret work. He's a really nice guy and he likes flamenco. I can ask him if he can talk to you.



ashod -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 19:58:54)

Hey Stephen, yeah sure why not!
If he has the time, I'll show him the guitar and he'll tell me what he thinks!

Thanks for your help!



sean65 -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 3 2011 20:47:23)

Stephens idea sounds good.

Failing that, why don't you send the guitar back to HSL and ask them to sort it out?



ashod -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 4 2011 13:31:04)

Hey Sean,

yeah I thought about that too.
But I need the guitar for 3 big gigs we have in 2 weeks.
The guitar is okay amplified and we barely hear the buzzing when my fellow drummer is going at it.
Maybe after that, if I don't get good results with my older guitar, or Stephens friend?

I'm still open to all options right now.



estebanana -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 7 2011 7:04:31)

Ashod,

I'll be sending you a private email with my friends number.

S.



estebanana -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 8 2011 15:32:44)

Ashod,

My friend just sent this. He said this shop is good for flamenco action set up. In case you have not contacted my friend yet:

Romuald Provost
12, rue TEXEL PARIS (near Gare Montparnasse) TEL: 01 43 22 75 25



ashod -> RE: Fed up of the shop, I want to do my own fret work (Apr. 8 2011 18:58:31)

Stephen,

I left work late this whole week, still didn't get to call him.
I will do that tomorrow and I keep this adress in mind.

Thank you for your time man! I really appreciate it.



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