Ruphus -> RE: At the doorstep to a new epoch? (Mar. 31 2011 15:26:48)
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ORIGINAL: rogeliocan I understand what you are saying Ruphus, that even if man disapeared off the planet, there would still remain much for the planet to digest. But I do believe that earth can take a bigger beating, I'm not saying that it will stay the way it is today, it will change and we will adapt even if eventually, a long time from now, we may have to leave it. I also beleive that many changes you mention are natural, something I don't want to debate; it's being debated enough already. That sounds as if there had been an actual diskurs between equally backed-up / scientifical and proprotioned sides. Trust me, there never has been such. What has been instead was arbitrary denial from PR mercenaries, who achieve a lot despite their baselessness. According to a study 97% of all climatologists see a global warming caused by menkind. Yet, 30% of the German people and even 40% of Americans doubt a global warming to occure at all. All achieved by single persons like most prominently Fred Singer ( physicist whose last actual engagement in physics was contribution as Cold War warrior ) who has no clue nor actual scientifical argumentation on climate or medics. Yet, managed to publicly deny acidic rain, the ozon hole, global warming and effects of passive smoking by random claims like `science wasn´t all agreeing yet´, `ozon in atmosphere would decrease only locally´, `it wasn´t evident FCKW from spray cans to be related to that,´and that damage from passive smoking to be "trash science". Yet, in 1994 he claimed that "chlorine in the stratosphere stems from natural source". 1995 stating before congress: "There exists no scientifical consens about the ozon hole and its consequences". Right afterwards three chemists received the Nobel Prize for proof of FCKW influence to the ozon layer. He and his co-smudgers vent random claims and cash in for that. For a "certificate" that attests the harmlessness of pollution the German cole association wired 98 000 USD, and a US Electricity company paid 100 000 $. These people are being engaged to pretend a scientifical debate where there is none in the academies. What science actually confirms is that the rapid environmental changes and measure of exctinction currently happening to have never occured before on this planet. And the scientifical community does not even pay attention to paid nutcases like Singer & co., other than remarking to the populism: "Imagine Einstein would have to defend the relativity theory in a talk-show. He wouldn´t have the glims of a chance." quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan When I was eight or nine years old I read the autobiography of a British professional hunter. Villages in India would hire him to kill tigers that were eating the villagers' friends and relatives. The tigers were crafty and dangerous, but the hunter was more so. The man had killed over a hundred tigers. To my childish self, he was a hero. To my brother, my father and eight uncles he was, too. We had grown up in the vast wilderness of south Texas. It was inconceivable that one day the tigers would be gone from India, or that there would be no more jaguars in south Texas. The hero who shoots the owner of the place. After all conception of conquistadores and settlers; isn´t it. Nature traditionally appeared so infinite and invincible to people that it makes you wonder how the alleged quote from Sitting Bull ( faked by a journalist ) of "Yet, when you cut the last tree, cought the last fish ..." made it to such popularity and appreciation at all. Eventhough much younger than you, I too remember well the common perception of the past. What we consider as beautiful today used to be vastly perceived as wilderness in a disparaging sense. Yet, when the forest was cleared, the ground flattened and layered with concrete the place in question started to turn from "neglected" to "advanced". Nowehere in history that drastically like in the US. A whole continent shaved. Noone can even imagine the sheer incredible amount of timber alone, eventhough Europe had seen an incredible deforesting before. Total mindlessness! Had I a time machine at hand, there would be a couple of destinations on my schedule. One would be a trip to American natives, telling them how to to meet Spaniards and Portugese. With the networking they had, I guess the 200 tribes would had received the dispatch in time. quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan I was seven years old when World War II ended. I could read the newspaper fluently. I can remember a time when it wasn't clear who would win. It seems as if the worlds luck was that Hitler considered nuclear tech as "jewish science", and thus did not settle on developing the a-bomb. Germanys luck on the other hand was that Roosevelt´s staff finally feared duds which could end up in German reverse engineering, and thus cancelled their plan of dropping several Fat Boy- thelikes in the middle of Europe. quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan Will it take a catastrophe like WW II to unite us in action to preserve the environment and our own lives? I see nothing to indicate that the US will respond to the situation any time soon. A question of PR I think. The USA had no problem with Hitler and his policies. In the opposite, American industrials like Coca Cola, Ford etc. were very satisfied with thier undertakings there and actually sponsored the yet unknown Adolf. Counting with cockaigne of free ressources, plants and labour in coming occupied countries. Even the KZs, chase and killing of millions of jewish, communists, socialists, roman and handicaped people couldn´t move the US adminstration. Yet, after Stalingrad and the realization that Stalin would not be defeated but instead going to strike back and march to Europe, the US adminstration started the print barrel; informed countrymen about the master race doctrin and holocaust. If Fox TV & co. were to start similar press work on environmental issues we would be seeing sudden progress, just as with the switch from indifference to enmity during WWII. Only that the actual reigns in the US prefer to keep up with the oil-based path and its affluent profits, whereas alternative technology would be meaning scrap of the current bonanza and investment at preliminary much less profit margins. They are waiting for foreign competition to force them to new boundaries, and keep on cashing in until then. quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan But am I a pessimist? No. Looking at myself, I see an irrepressible optimist. We have muddled through crisis after crisis. This crisis differs from all before, however. quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan One of my ancestors was the Escheator of Suffolk in England in 1358. It was a minor office, compared to his landed wealth and military power. He made sure that if someone died without heirs, his estate went to the King. He got a percentage of the estate. 1358 was the first year of the Black Plague in England. It wiped out a fifth of the population. Whole villages died. Extensive tracts of land were depopulated. My ancestor survived--making my family one of the wealthiest in eastern England for centuries. I´m from a aristocrat family too, and am not eager to know about their reigning past. Alone notion of past years unethical events by them suffice to me. quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan We may end by provoking an environmental catastrophe. But some of us will survive. Some will even turn it to their advantage. Yeah, some possibly with their estate under oxygenated hoods, but even them will be watching old takes from natural environment yearningly. Once its gone yet the dumbest starts appreciating. Not to think of pedestrians and their day-after conditions. Those science fictions where people despite foregone armageddon are still tweaking on vehicles and tools seem pretty unreal. There likely won´t be the means. Rather potential would be cultural retard and cannibalism. quote:
ORIGINAL: KMMI77 quote:
I havn´t heard of him. Supposing the venus project to be meaning space colonization: Nothing to do with space colonization. Here are some of his suggestions ... Thank you! I will try accessing it when getting around the censoring. quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan "Politicians are ignorant, incompetent people," says Jaque Fresco. Well, Julius Caesar may have been an exception, but they assassinated him. [8|] I don´t get historians and common hype about Caesar. How can unbelievable cruelty and unscrupulousness be regarded as genius? quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan At least politicians represent us. Not that they act in our interests--but they reflect the ignorance and incompetence of the electorate acting as a group. I never thought formal representation to be something positive on its own. Representation that is not authentic is always to your disadvantage. Further "ignorance" and "incompetence" implies occuring mistakes. Usually however established policies are no mistaking, but actions of delegates who represent other parties interests than pretended by official title. When was the last time that you believed say a minister of finance to be keeping together municipal budget, or even managing for its aggregation? quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan C. Northcote Parkinson said," A virtuoso committee may rise to the level of a chimpanzee. Larger organizations behave more like amoebas." I agree with most of Fresco's diagnosis. He hadn't time to present his prescription in any detail. The 20th century, however, teaches that prescriptions for society have sometimes been more dangerous than the disease they propose to treat. And with that post WWII time helped a lot with solidifying oligarchies. For, as of then it ought to be clear that you better don´t touch status quo, as only desaster could come out of any attempts to change. Remember those times when bribe money could be around ~ 15 grands for a high official? When the haul at the end of the day maybe was a ground lot for nada, a pool built for pocket money and a black bank account with ~ 200 000 bucks or so? Meanwhile, the immunisation of establishment through post WWII dogm has inflatet corruption up to near total closeout of state property. Remember Kashoggi anyone? With just 8 billion $ "richest man of the world"? Cute, ain´t it? And the hosts who shell out ever more year per year, to finance an exploding cockaigne of immunified skim, sit hypnotized; because rattling at the door can only collapse the house. So they have been told. Richard, Ensuring indepedent education and press, Uniting science for tracing reasonable concepts, establishing direct voting for the people, and routines to prevent corruption ... is not easy. But much less of a burden and risk for the future than feeding blind kingdoms, I believe. PS: Should you know Di ck Finn ( software I think ) tell him warmest regards from Babeck´s brother! quote:
ORIGINAL: KMMI77 The social problems would appear to be some of the most difficult to address with evolution revealing many issues that i assume first need to be addressed as individuals. I myself find it confusing given a limited understanding of the overall picture. My upbringing, life experiences, exposure to controlled media, information and education system, not to mention other individuals in the same predicament hasn't helped. I personally view this as a part of evolution rather than conspiracy.. Evolution as I understand it is being determined by environmental conditions. Other than with our knees and maybe the atlas bone, our evolution seems to have gone quite alright. The problem rather seems to be that we have hit a road away from our natural fittings. We are not meant to live as colony beings like ants, with everyone robotting to serve queens and courts. And the contradiction of actuality against drives is showing with the psychological conditions. Evolutionary, developing steps of homo sapines are considered to be in measure of 100 000 years. The past thousands of years don´t even mean evolution on micro level. Let alone common states looting since ~ 3 decades or earth-shaking new crisis biz-strategies since only little over twenty years by now. What you relate to, I think, is culture. Culture can change anytime, indeed. Just as it did with the first dynasties. Only, whether a change of culture to be inevitable or natural on principle, just because it occured, should be a questionable suggestion. quote:
ORIGINAL: KMMI77 All being willing/able to take action,acknowledge responsibility, feel and understand ones interactions and consequences of all actions on oneself and others understandably, although i believe unnecessarily, raises fear. Perhaps there is potential revealed when understanding the above? Definitly. Most consequential with the misuse of primeval fear, like in all moralistic traditons. The wag of constantly granted and revoked legitimation of a person´s existance, a method commonly used as retarded pedagogical lever, reduces the person´s capability of recognition. That is because recognition will demand alteration / parting with ( predefined / foregoing ) terms, which however will be restricted by the self-deemed `questionable-existance´ individual. By an uproot ego realization of own former view and belief as obsolete, is falsly deemed equal to disqualification of himself as a person. With that bad news will be asssociated and feared as apparent personal challenge, and thus overlooked. It is in fact the main lever for psychological mass control; involuntarily passed on from one generation to the other. Ignorance, once anthroplogical escort against intellectual over strain and desperation, today though long overdue to fade, is being fueled since roughly 5 millenia / the upcoming of prudery and moralism. Ruphus
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