Santos Hernandez value? (Full Version)

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Ducky -> Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 20:46:45)

Hi, my dad, who no longer plays, just gave me his 1950 Santos Hernandez (by Marcelo Barbero) guitar to sell. Not sure how to value it or where to sell it to someone who will appreciate it. It's in great condition (I don't know guitars, but I do know it looks fine, never got damaged or repaired, and that he always handled it gingerly.) Sounded good whenever he played it.



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Escribano -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 21:01:21)

Don't sell it.



cRobson12 -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 21:36:14)

I will give you a thousand for it [:)]



mezzo -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 21:49:07)

Nice! that's makes possible the creation of a timbric color no?



TANúñez -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 21:52:33)

I will give you two thousand for it [:)]



cRobson12 -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 22:02:57)

[:(]



TANúñez -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 22:21:15)

[sm=Smiley Guitar.gif]



VietFlamenco -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 22:50:34)

Is it a trend now for people to just post pictures of the label as long as it's made by someone famous? We actually want to see the guitar as well...

I'll give you $5 for the label.



DoctorX2k2 -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 23:02:29)

I'll take it from you for 5k$.



mezzo -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 23:04:12)

quote:

We actually want to see the guitar as well...

indeed [:)]
and add a paper with your name on...just in case...



VietFlamenco -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 23:07:50)

I'm not doubting that Ducky has the guitar. I was just curious how any luthier in here can help put a value on the guitar without seeing the darn thing. This brings up a recent ebay seller i noticed trying to sell a guitar for astronomical amounts and all he posted up was a picture of the label. [8|]



rogeliocan -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 23:15:12)

quote:

and add a paper with your name on...just in case...

Funny.

I'll have to go talk to my mother. I feel a bit cheated that pretty much every body's finding these old guitars and I did not get any. All there is at my mother's house is an old wreck of a no-name sunburst jazz guitar that nobody ever even played.



Harry -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 27 2011 23:23:55)

Hey Ducky,

indeed post a proper picture of the guitar, and also compare it to other Santos Hernandez guitars of the same year perhaps. You can find these on various sites online.

I would never sell my father's guitar. It is an old Aria classical.



El Kiko -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Mar. 28 2011 0:28:53)

watching .......waiting ............thinking............



kozz -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Apr. 2 2011 8:19:02)

quote:

1950 Santos Hernandez (by Marcelo Barbero)


OH NO....!!!!!!!




http://www.may-studio-music-lessons.com/santos-hernandez-by-marcelo-barbero-model-aduana-23-on-label.html

Here is a site which sells guitar made by both luthiers. [&:][&:][&:][&:][&:] They might be able to give you some info:
http://www.andalusiang.com/eninicioag.html
Lynne



C. Vega -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Apr. 2 2011 21:45:56)

I think that the guitar you have is an outsourced instrument purchased from another workshop/factory or perhaps a commercial distributor and resold through the Santos shop by his widow and not a guitar made by Barbero.
For starters, the label is not dated and the word "guitarreria" on the label usually refers to a guitar shop in the retail sense. The Barbero-made guitars are labeled differently.
It's probably a decent enough guitar but I doubt very much that it was made by Barbero.
The viuda Hernandez was apparently quite an enterprising woman. In addition to guitars she also dealt in violins and hired the violin maker Fernando Solar Gonzalez (brother of the guitar maker Anselmo) to do repairs, rehair bows etc. There are records from the firm of Telesforo Julve in Valencia showing shipments of violin fittings and materials to her shop.

Some of the info given on the site that Kozz linked to is incorrect. The back and sides are maple, not cypress, and the "Aduana, 23" on the label is the street address of the old Santos shop, not a model number.
Following the viuda's death, the shop was passed on to her nephew by marriage Feliciano Bayon (she and Santos had no children) and then to his son Santos Bayon Ruiz. It finally closed a year or two ago.

There's currently a 1950 Barbero (supposedly)/Viuda de Santos Hernandez guitar up for grabs on the GSI website. Also a little history.
www.guitarsalon.com
Click the flamenco listing.



Harry -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Apr. 3 2011 3:08:01)

This Lynne person really, really, really does not know her stuff.

ugh, this just makes me cringe.

C. Vega, that is a lot of great info! It is so obviously maple; I don't know much about guitars but when the grain looks like the top of a Les Paul...



RobJe -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Apr. 3 2011 11:30:32)

I think that Lynne might (I hope) have been joking with her reference to Andalusian guitars.

It is interesting to see that more pictures of this guitar have been posted on another site resulting in some amusing and inaccurate information.

I don’t know if Daffy is still out there looking for information – maybe it is better to hold on to the myth rather than find out what is really going on with this guitar.

V Vega is correct. The word “guitarreria” is the clue.

Santos died in 1943. Marcelo Barbero did indeed finish off some guitars for widow of Santos and probably made some more under this label before opening his own shop in about 1945. The label used had the same design as Santos with some additions including Barbero’s name (picture below).

Felicano Bayon (and perhaps others) continued making guitars for the widow. Later labels did not identify the luthier and while most people who own one of the widow’s guitars like to claim it was made by Barbero, it is likely that most were not. By the 1950’s Barbero’s design had broken away from that of Santos and he was achieving some fame as a luthier – too busy to be building guitars for anyone else. He died in 1956 at the age of 52.

Rob



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RobJe -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Apr. 3 2011 11:37:49)

And here is the later label.



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C. Vega -> RE: Santos Hernandez value? (Apr. 3 2011 15:54:38)

My feeling is that 1950 is too late a date for Barbero to have still been making guitars for the widow. It's been my understanding that he only worked for her for about three years following Santos' death while continuing to build up his own clientele.
The widow also had other makers build guitars for her. Owners (and especially sellers) of these "viuda" labeled guitars like to claim that they were made by Barbero when in fact most of them were not.

Just as a bit of additional information, Feliciano Bayon, who inherited the shop from the widow, used the same label as the second one RobJe posted a photo of except that the words "Viuda de" were changed to "Sobrinos de" (nephews of) Santos Hernandez. I don't know why he used the plural version since it was just him.
Feliciano Bayon, a self-taught maker, was married to Esperanza Ruiz, a niece of Santos' widow Matilde Ruiz Lopez. He was not a blood relative of Santos. It's quite possible that two never met.
Feliciano died in 1997. His son, Santos Bayon Ruiz, was born in 1951. He used the words "Sobrino (singular) de Santos Hernandez" on his labels. He is now retired.



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