Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Full Version)

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vuduchyld -> Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 8 2011 2:22:55)

I'd swear the ever-popular Yamaha cheap flamenco was CG171SF. I also think it had been discontinued and one couldn't find a new guitar anymore.

Amazon just informed me of a CG172SF that is available...new, even:
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-CG172SF-String-Flamenco-Guitar/dp/B004MDKTIY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1299554390&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-CG172SF-String-Flamenco-Guitar/dp/B004MDKTIY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1299554390&sr=8-2

Am I imagining this, or did they just come out with a new model?



GuitarVlog -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 8 2011 2:55:41)

No such guitar was announced at the last NAMM. Following the new numbering convention, I would have expected it to have been labeled as the CG182SF.

I sent those links to a couple of contacts I know at Yamaha Guitars in SoCal. They'll give me the scoop or tell Amazon.com about the snafu.



EDIT:
I stand corrected. Apparently the CG182SF was mentioned at the last NAMM. It seems however that news of it was only picked-up in the UK and Canada?

http://www.mi-pro.co.uk/news/31857/NAMM-2011-Yamaha-extends-guitar-offering

Even the official Yamaha NAMM online news releases never mentioned it.



EDIT EDIT:
Hmm. Found a "press release" image from Yamaha Europe that specifies the 182SF and even mentions it as being the "successor to the 171SF". However, it's superimposed over an image of Gabriella playing an NCX1200R which has a cutaway.

I'm suspecting that the prototype wasn't yet ready for NAMM.



In any case, it's great news for budget-conscious aficionados. [:)]

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vuduchyld -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 8 2011 14:05:03)

Hey, GV, thank you for doing some research...you are more knowledgeable than I am about how to find info!

I'd kinda rather NOT get the inexpensive Yamaha, but I've been studying for almost a year now on a SUPER nasty Eterna EC-15 classical guitar. I've been playing guitar in general for 20+ years, though, so I've learned enough that my guitar is really, truly holding me back right now. Whenever I pick up even a low-end Cordoba in Guitar Center, I can tell a huge difference in action, string tension, and other feedback.

Been considering the Francisco Navarro student blanca, but my dilemma is that my wife is a dancer (she has been dancing for more than a decade and she is very good). I will almost certainly be playing gigs with her, so if a cheap Yamaha has a pickup, I could easily see fit to start cheaper and keep saving for a nicer guitar.



rombsix -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 8 2011 14:51:10)

quote:

if a cheap Yamaha has a pickup


http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-CGX171SFC-Flamenco-Acoustic-Electric-Guitar?sku=512446

This used to exist, but I believe it's going to be hard to find now...



elgreco -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 8 2011 15:32:54)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuitarVlog

http://www.mi-pro.co.uk/news/31857/NAMM-2011-Yamaha-extends-guitar-offering


A musical instrument website has a "Breaking News" section? Are they serious?



GuitarVlog -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 8 2011 20:46:42)

You don't have any perfect choices out there among tight-budget guitars but these are what you can consider:
  • The old Yamaha CGX171SFC (as mentioned by Ramzi) which has both an internal goose-neck mic and undersaddle pickup (LR Baggs, I think). I haven't played one but my gigging friends like its amplified tone. Its drawback is that the nut width is narrower and I've been told that its un-amped tone is not as good as the CG171SF. It has a cutaway.

  • The Cordoba GK Studio uses a Fishman Presys blend pickup (Presys is Fishman's budget line. I think they bought-out a small company that made these.). I've played a couple and the un-amped tone is good. The amped tone through a budget acoustic amp was okay but a better amp might improve it. Nut width is also narrower and it has a cutaway. Back and sides are laminated cypress.

  • The upcoming Yamaha NCX700 (mentioned in that photo above and available at some retailers already). This is technically a classical guitar so the tone should be evaluated carefully (I haven't played it). It uses Yamaha's new A.R.T. pickup system and I've read good reviews about it. The nut width is wide like a typical flamenco guitar and it has a cutaway. It has no golpeador installed. Back and sides are laminated mahogany.

Maybe you can just buy a Navarro and have a pickup installed. I think that'd be better than spending slightly less money on a still-less-than-suitable solution.



quote:

ORIGINAL: vuduchyld
I'd kinda rather NOT get the inexpensive Yamaha, but I've been studying for almost a year now on a SUPER nasty Eterna EC-15 classical guitar. I've been playing guitar in general for 20+ years, though, so I've learned enough that my guitar is really, truly holding me back right now.

Have you seen some of Ramzi's vids on his YouTube channel? I don't think his Hohner held him back. He sounds pretty good on it too.
[:D]



GuitarVlog -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 8 2011 20:48:40)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elgreco
A musical instrument website has a "Breaking News" section? Are they serious


I've no idea. Maybe new electric guitars pop-out every hour? [:D]

Or maybe they expect Spanish guitar factories to launch air raids on Chinese factories any moment now. [:D][:D]



elgreco -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 8 2011 21:19:49)

[:D][:D][:D][:D]
quote:


I've no idea. Maybe new electric guitars pop-out every hour?

Or maybe they expect Spanish guitar factories to launch air raids on Chinese factories any moment now.



rombsix -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 8 2011 21:25:20)

quote:

Have you seen some of Ramzi's vids on his YouTube channel? I don't think his Hohner held him back. He sounds pretty good on it too.


Muchas gracias! [:)]



vuduchyld -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 8 2011 21:48:54)

quote:

You don't have any perfect choices out there among tight-budget guitars but these are what you can consider:

* The old Yamaha CGX171SFC (as mentioned by Ramzi) which has both an internal goose-neck mic and undersaddle pickup (LR Baggs, I think). I haven't played one but my gigging friends like its amplified tone. Its drawback is that the nut width is narrower and I've been told that its un-amped tone is not as good as the CG171SF. It has a cutaway.

* The Cordoba GK Studio uses a Fishman Presys blend pickup (Presys is Fishman's budget line. I think they bought-out a small company that made these.). I've played a couple and the un-amped tone is good. The amped tone through a budget acoustic amp was okay but a better amp might improve it. Nut width is also narrower and it has a cutaway. Back and sides are laminated cypress.

* The upcoming Yamaha NCX700 (mentioned in that photo above and available at some retailers already). This is technically a classical guitar so the tone should be evaluated carefully (I haven't played it). It uses Yamaha's new A.R.T. pickup system and I've read good reviews about it. The nut width is wide like a typical flamenco guitar and it has a cutaway. It has no golpeador installed. Back and sides are laminated mahogany.


Maybe you can just buy a Navarro and have a pickup installed. I think that'd be better than spending slightly less money on a still-less-than-suitable solution.




Great stuff, GV. Really appreciate the info. I like the idea of having a pickup installed on the Navarro, too, now that you mention it. I don't love the thought of narrower at the nut. Also, I far prefer a blanca to a mahogany classical.

I have played two of the GK models...both, sadly, at Guitar Center. In Overland Park, KS, the thing was such a complete piece of junk that one of the employees literally apologized and said they could order a new one if I was interested in playing one...the one I played had action at probably 6mm at the 12th fret. The strings were corroded. Any time one tapped the soundboard, it buzzed and rattled because a brace was loose. Terrible setup and maintenance. In Tulsa, OK, the one I played was actually very nice, but I had such a bad taste in my mouth, I wasn't tempted.

I didn't realize that the CG171SFC was so different...thought it was just an added pickup and maybe an optional cutaway. Bah humbug.

I called my local Yamaha dealer and asked them to call their Yamaha rep. If I can get something that isn't narrower at the nut that does have a pickup and I can do it for $300-350, I probably will. Otherwise...probably the Navarro or something else.

As for Ramzi, yeah, he seems to be making progress! Not that I would try to make excuses at all and I think the player is 100x more important than the guitar, but the one I have is really mushy...sounds awful and I really worry that I'm picking up bad habits that won't serve me well later. And...my wife (the dancer!) is demanding that I get a new guitar! How often does that happen?!? I need to do it...for HER!!!!



GuitarVlog -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 8 2011 22:38:30)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vuduchyld
In Tulsa, OK, the one I played was actually very nice, but I had such a bad taste in my mouth, I wasn't tempted.

That's the main reason I'm reluctant to recommend any of the Chinese-made Cordobas. In general, they have the potential to have better tone than Yamaha. However, Cordoba's quality control can be very disappointing. Yamahas may be relatively unexciting but they're reliable, well-built, and great value for the money.

I've played a lot of Cordobas thinking they might make for a nice albeit very modest upgrade from my Yamaha CG171SF. In the end, I decided otherwise.

But keep checking the Cordobas out whenever you run into them. You might find a gem. The Cordoba F7 is $500 and the all-solid F10 is $900. You can find also them discounted 15-20% during holidays. The F7 was selling for $400 (with a $100-off promo coupon) just last week.



quote:

ORIGINAL: vuduchyld
I called my local Yamaha dealer and asked them to call their Yamaha rep. If I can get something that isn't narrower at the nut that does have a pickup and I can do it for $300-350, I probably will.

If you go that route, then you'll probably wind-up buying the CG182SF (whenever it becomes available) for $300-350, or a used CG171SF for $250-$275 and installing a pickup. Good pickups can cost a bit too!

My contacts at Yamaha haven't yet emailed me back about the CG182SF.



quote:

ORIGINAL: vuduchyld
Otherwise...probably the Navarro or something else.

... And...my wife (the dancer!) is demanding that I get a new guitar! How often does that happen?!? I need to do it...for HER!!!!

You realize that this is like you've got written permission if not a direct order. As my last teacher taught me, "You never do anything to piss-off your dancers!!"
[:D]

If you wind-up with a Navarro Estudio, you'll at least want to swap-out the tuning machines. They work fine but they're cheap and look cheap. I guess Sr. Navarro had to cut costs somewhere. Of course, I've seen fugly cheap tuners even on $1k+ Spanish-made guitars. You can find lyra-shaped gold tuning machines (with molded hardware and high-quality plastic pearloid buttons) from Ping or from Gotoh for $50-$70 shipped. I installed a set of Gotohs on my Yamaha.



vuduchyld -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 9 2011 0:19:13)

quote:

My contacts at Yamaha haven't yet emailed me back about the CG182SF.


Awesome! You have contacts at Yamaha! That must mean I've got contacts with contacts at Yamaha!

Seriously, I really appreciate all your outstanding information in this thread. Thank you very much.

Definitely don't want to piss off wives OR dancers and ESPECIALLY not dancing wives! So I need to make a move soon-ish. If the Yamaha isn't available with a normal nut width and a pickup, that will at least make the decision easier. Thanks for the advice on the tuners!



rombsix -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 9 2011 10:17:36)

quote:

ESPECIALLY not dancing wives!


[:D][8D]



James Ashley Mayer -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 9 2011 18:39:12)

I bought a Cordoba GK Studio back in the Fall. Mine sounds fine and plays great. It's not as loud or as responsive as my best blanca, but the reason I got it is because I didn't want to install electronics in my favorite guitar. Also, having had severe issues with RSI, in the past, that narrower nut width and very thin neck (the thinnest nylon-string neck I have ever played and it has a truss rod) makes it easier on the hands. It's extremely comfortable and the electronics sound good.

The Cordoba is an excellent buy for $450 ( I had a discount), but it's not a GREAT guitar. However, once you put electronics in and play amplified, none of that extra $$ matters at all. At that point it's all about the amplification system and the comfort/playability of the guitar.

My biggest complaint is the cutaway. I hate cutaways on a flamenco or classical guitar.



vuduchyld -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 11 2011 0:41:32)

One of the two GK models I played was actually quite nice. I enjoyed playing it. Eventually when I have the time, money, and inclination to have a few more guitars in my nylon-string arsenal, I could imagine that there could be a place in the lineup for a GK or something similar.

Since I'm basically shopping for my first flamenco guitar, though, I think I would like to stick with something more traditional. I could imagine something with a pickup, but I think I'd really prefer standard size.

If anybody is following that is curious about the Yamha, I called my local guitar store that carries Yamaha. It's a locally-owned store, but they are huge around the country in the bluegrass community and they move a lot of Taylor guitars through there. I've ordered a Taylor through them and had a great experience.

Anyway, they called me back today and said that, yes, they could order a CG172SF from Yamaha for $329.99. The guitar is available.

I asked about a model with a pickup, delivery time, and whether or not any models with pickup had a different width at the nut. They will get back to me tomorrow.



GuitarVlog -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 11 2011 1:12:25)

quote:

Anyway, they called me back today and said that, yes, they could order a CG172SF from Yamaha for $329.99. The guitar is available.

Wow! I just did a second search for CG172SF and there are more hits. One of them even has photos.

http://www.fullersguitar.com/Yamaha/Yamaha-CG172SF-Nylon-String-Flamenco-Guitar?vmcchk=1

My contacts at Yamaha have either missed my email to them or they've chosen to remain silent. But these two photos, with the reinstated headstock logo and the inner label, seems to confirm that it has been released as the CG172SF.





In other photos, the guitar seems to have a matte or silk finish rather than high gloss. This image shows no reflection of the floor in the lower bout.



If it has a matte finish, that might explain why they chose to release it as the CG172SF rather than as the CG182SF. The classical models CG182S and CG182C have gloss finishes on the body.

Some might prefer a flamenca with a matte finish. Others might prefer the older CG171SF with the gloss finish. I personally would want to play one and examine the bracing on the soundboard.
[:D]

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rombsix -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 11 2011 8:33:18)

quote:

Wow! I just did a second search for CG172SF and there are more hits. One of them even has photos.


That looks JUICY, my friend! You should be changing your avatar soon. [;)]



GuitarVlog -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 11 2011 13:35:09)

quote:

That looks JUICY, my friend! You should be changing your avatar soon.

Maybe not. I like my CG171SF with the glossy finish.

I might turn into one of those people griping that "they don't make 'em like they used to anymore".
[:D]



rombsix -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 11 2011 17:56:54)

quote:

I might turn into one of those people griping that "they don't make 'em like they used to anymore".


Man, matté finishes are da bomb! I think... [8D][:D]



GuitarVlog -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 11 2011 18:03:15)



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rombsix -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 11 2011 21:52:00)

[:D]



GuitarVlog -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 11 2011 22:33:28)

If they were going for the financially-challenged gitano look with the matte finish, then they should have gone all the way and used peg tuners for the most authentic look.
[:)]

I'll wait and see how it looks in-person. I'm sure these will be arriving at the local Guitar Center stores within the next few weeks. I have some friends who have been waiting for this guitar.



vuduchyld -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 12 2011 2:11:33)

I'm not crazy about the matte finish, but I'm more concerned about width at the nut and status of pickups. Hope to learn more tomorrow. Ideally, I'd love a regular width, no cutaway, and a pickup for about $350. If I can't get that, I'll probably just wait for a Navarro blanca.



vuduchyld -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 19 2011 0:37:09)

Update...I just ordered a Francisco Navarro student blanca.

Can't get anybody to answer questions about the Yamaha. Honestly, the Navarro is going to be a much nicer guitar for only about double the price.



GuitarVlog -> RE: Is there a new Yamaha flamenco model out? (Mar. 19 2011 0:58:48)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vuduchyld
Update...I just ordered a Francisco Navarro student blanca.

Congrats! Anyone (in the US) who can stretch their budget to $650 should just get the Francisco Navarros. They're probably one of the most solid values at that price tier.
[:)][:)][:)]

One and done.
[:D]



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