Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Full Version)

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Harry -> Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 16 2011 2:35:43)

Hello!

I have been researching different options for a second flamenco guitar down the road of course (I just got a new one 6 months ago, sold the old one), and the Sanchis name keeps coming up. I would just like to know if there is a big difference between a Carpio and the hermanos Lopez. I recognize that the Carpios are more expensive, but obviously expensive is not always representative of much higher quality (?)

Can anyone speak to this?



avimuno -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 16 2011 4:05:34)

Hi Harry!

Hermanos Sanchis Lopez are the sons of Ricardo Sanchis Carpio. They learned to build guitars with their father and now build under their own label.
It is generally accepted that Sanchis Lopez builds student and professional guitars and Sanchis Carpio builds concert guitars.

I own a Sanchis Lopez 1F blanca (which is their workhorse guitar) and it's an amazing guitar for the money. Sanchis Lopez is well know for their quality over price ratio and you certainly get a lot of guitar for the money. My 1F is very Conde-like in character but with more basses and a less predominant midrange. It's constructed with very good quality tone woods with a very nice and fast setup. they are also built to last which is great if you're planning on travelling with it or gigging it regularly.
There's a video of Ricardo playing a 1F on Youtube, check it out.

A couple of years ago I was looking to buy a Ricardo Sanchis Carpio negra. Since the seller and I lived in the same area, he let me borrow the guitar for a weekend so that I get to know it well. It was a really good guitar. Top quality woods, excellent craftsmanship and great tone. It was very much in the same spirit as Sanchis Lopez, you could definitely see and hear that those guitars were 'related'. The reason I didn't get it was I felt that for the price, my Sanchis Lopez was actually a better deal.

It's all a question of taste at the end of the day so the best way to go would to be try both if you can.

Hope this helps.

Saludos,

Avi



avimuno -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 16 2011 4:19:39)

Here's the video of Ricardo playing his Sanchis Lopez:

http://www.youtube.com/user/marRicardo#p/u/21/HKDtoOKetfc

And here's a video of Gerardo Nunez... this could be either a Hermanos Sanchis Lopez F-Extra or a Ricardo Sanchis Carpio, some of their guitars are visually identical and you can't see the well enough label to tell:





Harry -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 16 2011 4:41:41)

Very interesting vids and thanks for the info!

I suppose I worry that most of the Carpios are pricier which is as it should be, but as in your example I wonder if they are truly that much better if it is the same family and so the same methods etc...

Another issue is that as your video shows, pros seem to be choosing Sanchis more and more and as this happens the prices tend to go way up! Like I said, I already dropped a few grand on a new guitar 6 months ago, but I would like a negra at a point for sure, and Sanchis seems a more attainable guitar than a Conde right now.



avimuno -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 16 2011 5:05:12)

Definitely check them out.

Bare in mind however that although Sanchis Lopez have a great reputation for their blancas, their negras are not so unanimous. Here again, it's a question of taste but most people think that their negras are too bassy. I have not actually played a Sanchis Lopez negra but compared to my Conde blanca, my 1F blanca is quite bass heavy... would probably be closer in sound to a Conde negra than a blanca actually.

If you're looking for a negra, one of the best options in the same price bracket as Sanchis Lopez would be a Pedro de Miguel student negra. It's probably one of the best value for money negras you could get. Very much in the same tradition as Sanchis Lopez, big Madrid-school sound with a lot of depth and a great flamenco buzz. Tom Nunez from La Falseta currently has one at a discount price.

Actually Tom is very knowledgeable about the Sanchis guitars (both father and sons) so he'll definitely give you some really good advice.

Saludos!



Harry -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 16 2011 15:46:33)

Thanks again for this info!

I think I had read on the forum somewhere about the Sanchis negras being too bassy, it's definitely something I will keep in mind. That Pedro de Miguel looks mighty tempting, but it's a bit too soon to buy another guitar!



bursche -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 16 2011 16:20:49)

Amongst the Sanchis guitars I have tried I preferred the Ricardo Sanchis models, but that can be coincidence. I agree that many of their negra guitars are very bass heavy, which does not necessarily mean that they have weak trebles. The extraordinarily strong basses just tend to predominate the trebles.
I have been noticing a lot of used Sanchis guitars being sold in the last months. Look out for Ricardo Sanchis models from the late 90's and early 00's. All the guitars from that time I have tried were excellent.



Harry -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 16 2011 16:52:18)

Thanks bursche for this advice. I have to say I am leaning towards a Carpio for sure, and since it is my goal to own 3 good guitars (Negra, spruce Blanca, and I already have a cedar top blanca) perhaps I can save for a good Carpio blanca. They look pretty beautiful!

In time maybe I can get a Conde AF25R, perhaps a rich uncle will leave me some money[:D]



bursche -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 16 2011 18:00:43)

If you find a good Sanchis Carpio Extra you won't need an A25 anymore.
A one like Gerardo's in the best case ;)

But I have to say that the quality of Sanchis guitars varies a lot from one instrument to another. That's true for both Ricardo as well as his sons.
Maybe you should consider though that the Hermanos are very young builders.
In ten years they could be lightyears ahead of their current standard.

But that again would be true both for the quality of their guitars as well as for their prices =S



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 17 2011 1:56:26)

[Deleted by Admins]



Harry -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 2:08:39)

Hey Nealf,

I agree in essence with what you are saying, but I did not realize Sanchis guitars were "factory" built. I did not realize they were that big. It seems to me what you are saying could also apply to Conde though, and that is part of the reason I am looking elsewhere.

Definitely, I am all for buying a guitar that is handmade by one master builder who has his name on the label. This is the type of guitar I own now. I guess I was foolishly hoping that a Sanchis Carpio would be like that, especially one from the 90's let's say.



avimuno -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 4:22:24)

quote:

I did not realize Sanchis guitars were "factory"


They are! But it's not a huge factory producing thousands of guitars every year a la Alhambra or Camps, but it's not a small crafstman's workshop producing a limited number of instruments either. The brothers are there to supervise the production and quality control. Of Course, they are not 'luthier' made instruments... guitars built by someone from beginning to end. But for the price you won't get that. It's true that they are getting more and more expensive, it's probably better to pay a bit more for a guitar entirely made by a luthier. You can get some very good handmade guitars by very good builders and yet for a very fair and competitive price. There are quite a few of them on this forum.

Nealf certainly had a bad experience... it's all about getting a good guitar at the end of the day. I have a Conde Atocha and I can certify that it's a much better guitar than my Sanchis. In fact, I would say that my Conde is also much better than the Sanchis Carpio negra I had for a weekend. But I paid USD 2500 for the Sanchis Lopez and the Conde was about 3 times that price, so it's all relative.
I've had a horrendous experience with a Conde Felipe, a bit like nealf with his Sanchis F-Extra. Paid what would constitute a down payment for a house for it and it was... well, quite bad! Does that mean that all guitars Conde makes are horrible? No! I was unlucky to get a bad one. From then on, I have always tried a guitar before buying.
I think that a lot of people have spent a lot of money on over-hyped guitars on this forum, I certainly have.

I would also tend to agree with nealf concerning the F-Extra... I don't think it's worth the extra dough. When it comes to Sanchis, the best buy is definitely the 1F, period! It's the most guitar for the money, but even they are getting expensive.

The best thing for you to do would be to really consider what you're after... what type of guitar, which building tradition, woods, dimensions etc, and have a look around at the different options available for your taste. Have a look into both 'factory' made and 'luthier' made instruments. And if you can, try them.
It's very personal but I find that something that has become very important for me when buying a guitar is the resale value of the instrument... don't neglect that aspect, as you might want to sell your guitar one day.

Saludos



avimuno -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 4:55:50)

quote:

It seems to me what you are saying could also apply to Conde though


It definitely does! Felipe is the hyped shop... but i've played better guitars from Atocha and Gravina. I've also played some really good Felipes though, especially one negra which was quite extraordinary, like it's price!

But unlike Sanchis, Conde outsources most of their guitars... it's built by other luthiers under Conde's 'strict specifications'. There's some inside info that has Sanchis building Condes for both Felipe and Atocha... I have to agree with Ricardo on that one, does not seem likely, they are too different... but one never knows.

You gotta love/hate the intrigue about Condes... it's like being in an Agatha Christie novel! [8D]



Tomrocker -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 13:14:50)

quote:

The best thing for you to do would be to really consider what you're after... what type of guitar, which building tradition, woods, dimensions etc, and have a look around at the different options available for your taste. Have a look into both 'factory' made and 'luthier' made instruments. And if you can, try them.
It's very personal but I find that something that has become very important for me when buying a guitar is the resale value of the instrument... don't neglect that aspect, as you might want to sell your guitar one day.


I can't agree more! Andres' Eliasson wrote here once a very good feetback about the Sanchis and the Bernal for the quality of the sound saying they are factory guitars with a resale value& who made them knows definitely what a flamenco sound is. I'm getting a Hermanos Sanchis Lopez by March as a backup guitar to use till my 1A Blanca arrive and i have along time waiting, so soon as i receive it, i'll consider selling the Sanchis. Luthiers guitars are special and The Andres Guitars are definitely awesome, the sound is amazing.

It's really wired how a guitar sound can affect you. My teacher is using a Valeriano Bernal Model F and when i try it i just want to buy a similar one for myself not to sell anyomre! I found one that was naturally sold for my bad luck with only 600 Euros in perfect condition, then i found this sanchis for 800 Euros and decided to get it knowing that i can sell it later . The thing i'll surely do before any future purchases considering a Factory guitar is to try and try to play the guitar before buying[;)]



Harry -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 14:35:16)

It is precisely this intrigue as you call it that does not inspire much confidence because living in Canada as I do, I don't have the opportunity to try a bunch if Condes and make sure I am not getting a dud because as you say, the down payment on a house is a mighty sum to spend on a guitar that is basically a brand name and a reputation. Unfortunately, although I love the sound of Tomatito's Conde AF25R, if there is even a slight chance that the one I end up with is a dud I am willing to do without! I would have to travel to New York (not too far) and check out the Condes at the Luthier shop, but then I would end up paying full price for one as opposed to getting a used one which would slash a few grand off.

I am going to assume that with a true Luthier built instrument the quality is more consistent, and this is why it seems a safer option no?



n85ae -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 15:10:20)

Big waste of time, the what guitar discussion IMHO

I bought two guitar's through Tom at La Falseta - I gave him a description of I was
looking for, and bought what he recommended. In both cases he gave me the option
to send them back if I was unhappy with the guitars. I think if you do NOT have the
opportunity to play the guitar in person, then this is really the only way to have
a reasonable chance of getting something good.

That is contact a reputable dealer, willing to stand behind the product they are
selling, and go with their advice. The only person I know that fits this is Tom,
because I have used him before, and in both cases was satisfied with the
results. (there may be others but Tom is the only one I have used)

I think you can spend til eternity, discussing, this that and the other guitar on the
forum, and still end up with a 50/50 chance of liking/hating what you get.

Call Tom (or somebody you trust) tell them what you want, how much you got,
and go with their recommendation. Call a reputable Luthier, like one of the guys
on the forum (Anders, John, etc) have them build what you want. OR go play a
guitar in person.

The label/model number in the guitar means nothing, a guitar is either good, or
not. This fits every guitar, whether Yamaha, or Conde.

Regards,
Jeff



Harry -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 15:58:15)

Thanks for this, and that is good advice that I will definitely follow when the time comes!



n85ae -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 18:12:50)

It comes up all the time, and it is a difficult problem. How do you choose a guitar,
if you are far away from the guitar, and cannot play it? I really think it comes down
to find somebody to trust to pick for you. Then of course, how do you find somebody
to trust?

Fortunately in my case it worked out, and experience with Tom established a
trust. So I'd likely buy another through him.

The luthier's on this forum, I have never hear any bad comments about, and
only praise. So I'd be comfortable, if I could afford to to have any one of them
build a guitar for me.

Regards,
Jeff



Harry -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 18:16:17)

Hey,

yes I have been eyeing and listening to Anders' guitars a great deal since I joined, but he is across the globe unfortunately. Still, when there's a will there's a way, and trip to Spain has been long overdue.



Doitsujin -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 18:45:42)

I have one of both guitars. I like both. Both have pros and cons. They feel very similar. You must test and decide afterwards. I have no favorite. Both guitars I own are awesome.



jg7238 -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 20:51:50)

quote:

the guitars that are cherry-picked are not shipped out to amateurs who play in their bedrooms but reserved for professionals who will further the brand and image (this is basic business 101).



Wow! Congratulations to all the well known guitarrists out there. [:D]



Harry -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Feb. 17 2011 21:36:13)

Congrats indeed,

I guess the bottom line is that a name on a label is no guarantee of quality or that the guitar will be right for you.

Still though as many have pointed out, that makes it hard for people who don't live somewhere where they have the option of play before buying.



zoli -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (May 13 2011 21:18:07)

Ricardo Sanchis Carpio and Hermanos Sanchis Lopez guitars available in a new London based store. Worldwide delivery. Check this out:
http://www.flamenco-guitars.co.uk



beno -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (May 15 2011 8:52:54)

Zoli! Are You Hungarian?



Doitsujin -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (May 15 2011 9:15:03)

quote:


the guitars that are cherry-picked are not shipped out to amateurs who play in their bedrooms but reserved for professionals who will further the brand and image (this is basic business 101).


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.... the stupid comment detector ran into a feedback.. Oo Damnit!

Well that comment says basically a very bad thing.

You can purchase a professional high class model...but what you get is a bad one that didnt pass the cherry-test for pro-players... LOL! If that is the shop-phylosophy I recommand NOT to buy any guitars there.



gbv1158 -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (May 15 2011 11:08:01)

quote:


yes I have been eyeing and listening to Anders' guitars a great deal since I joined, but he is across the globe unfortunately. Still, when there's a will there's a way, and trip to Spain has been long overdue.



Harry,
An old thought of mine (perhaps it is because I am an architect) is: “if the costructor is a Maestro, the costruction is always a Piece of Art.”

Anders fully confirms that!


ciao,
Giambattista



sartorius -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Apr. 2 2017 9:48:59)

In this interview he plays another Blanca with a different rosette (Sanchis Carpio again?)




Ricardo -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Apr. 2 2017 17:30:02)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sartorius

In this interview he plays another Blanca with a different rosette (Sanchis Carpio again?)




No this guitar is made by Milan Sabljic and Branislav Markovic (SabMar).



estebanana -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Apr. 3 2017 12:21:16)

At least it is red and not orange.



Echi -> RE: Sanchis Lopez vs Sanchis Carpio (Apr. 4 2017 7:18:07)

I think a used Sanchis Carpio signed by the maker (1f extra) from the end of 90ties are the best deal for money you can get.
I always found the Sanchis Carpio better sounding and better made than Sanchis Lopez and the old guitars (from the end of the eighties) better than the new ones.
I don't mean they are orange and apples. A Sanchis has always that Sanchis thing and you can pick the very good one no matter the label.
It's just that the old 1st class Sanchis Carpio, from the time he used to work for a famous maker, are consistently very good guitars while some new Sanchis Lopez are not in the same league.
Btw the guitars signed by Ricardo are (mostly) made by him while the non signed guitars are made serially.



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