Gaining your compositional imagination (Full Version)

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CarloJuan -> Gaining your compositional imagination (Jan. 7 2011 4:41:57)

I'm just a beginner in flamenco and i really haven't thought of composing yet. I am hoping to improve my skills first before dabbling with Phyrgian diatonic scales [;)]

Thing is, i continue to always listen to Nuevo Flamenco, and can't help but be so amazed with the total different language it has. My puro maestro, doesn't like it cause he says it's fused with jazz scales, modes, chords. It ain't authentic, he feels it really ain't flamenco.

I say, give hommage and preserve the old tradition and Old Masters but at the same time be open for new possibilites. Nuevo Flamenco is what it is..."NEW flamenco" it really doesn't sound anything like Jazz, or American, New-Orleans kinda Jazz if that's what he's pertaining to.

Using M7, m9, M13, 6/9, aug, dim, m7b5 chords doesn't really mean that when you do those chords in a composition....it's jazz already. Classical composers use those chords too and they call it "Romantic" or "Contemporary", "Modern" or "Avant garde" music, but it ain't close to jazz.

Anyway, i just wanted to ask if how does one gain his flamenco compositional imagination? I'm very alien with nuevo flamenco's progressions and chords.

I'm excited and i'm hoping if i could also gain that thorough knowledge of flamenco harmony, chord theory, scales, etc.

Thanks for the tips and advice! [:)]



Elie -> RE: Gaining your compositional imagination (Jan. 7 2011 4:57:42)

quote:

My puro maestro, doesn't like it cause he says it's fused with jazz scales, modes, chords. It ain't authentic, he feels it really ain't flamenco.

"jazz scales, modes, chords." I think that's what bring the brilliantly to "Nuevo Flamenco" with all respect to big names like ( sabicas, Niño Ricardo and Diego del Gastor .....) but their music sounds so boring after listening to "Nuevo Flamenco" by Paco , Vicente or Chicuelo etc ...
also at any gig you're gonna play I don't think audience(non-flamencos) are gonna enjoy sabicas or ninos music pieces. ~ just my opinion
quote:

Anyway, i just wanted to ask if how does one gain his flamenco compositional imagination? I'm very alien with nuevo flamenco's progressions and chords.

I think the best solution at the moment is to play and learn as much nuevo flamenco as you can .. ex. Encuentros dvds ... so you can understand the structure and the way it works
later I believe that you'll be able to improvise and create beautiful compositions depending on your pre knowledge but first you have to play n play n play [:D]
cheers n good luck !!



CarloJuan -> RE: Gaining your compositional imagination (Jan. 7 2011 5:31:22)

quote:

I believe that you'll be able to improvise and create beautiful compositions depending on your pre knowledge but first you have to play n play n play [:D]
cheers n good luck !!


Thanks Elie, that's good advice [:)]



Ricardo -> RE: Gaining your compositional imagination (Jan. 7 2011 14:47:37)

quote:

Anyway, i just wanted to ask if how does one gain his flamenco compositional imagination? I'm very alien with nuevo flamenco's progressions and chords.


A lot of confusion is about the new way compas is approached. Playing very synchopated things is the main thing that sounds "strange and jazzy" to old schoolers. The old flamenco was much more on beat and clear phrasing wise. That does not make it easier to play, just less sophisticated rhythmically. A lot of chords and scales done nowadays are the same literally as the old school stuff, yet the timing and delivery is very different now.

So focus on compas, rhythm, and the entire world of improvising and composing opens up. The rhythmic variety available to a genre like flamenco is almost infinite but you have to do things with taste and understanding of the traditional phrasing and pathways.



CarloJuan -> RE: Gaining your compositional imagination (Jan. 8 2011 3:50:58)

quote:


So focus on compas, rhythm, and the entire world of improvising and composing opens up. The rhythmic variety available to a genre like flamenco is almost infinite but you have to do things with taste and understanding of the traditional phrasing and pathways.


I think that's composing flamenco in a nutshell. Very well said. Thanks very much Ricardo [:D][:D]



XXX -> RE: Gaining your compositional imagination (Jan. 8 2011 12:03:44)

Im surprised noone mentioned accompayning as one of the main motors for getting a grip on composing. It is especially good for developing a feeling for length of phrases, be it within a compas (how to close a melody), or how to put several compases together.

Also historically, all of the composers or even solo guitarrists for that sake were accompanist when they started. It is the basis for all, musically. BESIDES being the material basis for most of the pro guitarrists too, economically. (and not solo guitar i mean)



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