Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Full Version)

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jg7238 -> Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 23 2010 23:04:42)

Here are some clips of a young Paco accompanying por bulerias and Alegrias.








TANúñez -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 24 2010 0:10:02)

Excellent!



KMMI77 -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 24 2010 2:43:37)

Loud stamping +loud palmas+ loud jaleo= guitarists totally drowned out and headache



jg7238 -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 24 2010 6:05:31)

I agree KMMI77, especially in the bulerias clip. I thought it would be nice posting being rare footage I guess. Sorry about that.[:@]



Elie -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 24 2010 6:10:55)

ole maestro [:)]
thanx for posting mate [:D]



mark indigo -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 24 2010 9:36:33)

quote:

Loud stamping +loud palmas+ loud jaleo= guitarists totally drowned out and headache


agree! but you missed something out of the equation, put "+ no amplification" in there after "loud jaleo" and before the "=" like this;

Loud stamping + loud palmas + loud jaleo + no amplification = guitarists totally drowned out and headache


btw i heard that his dad didn't let him play in tablao's when he was young 'cos he didn't want him to strain his hands playing for dancers unamplified.



KMMI77 -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 24 2010 10:30:40)

quote:

Sorry about that.


No Thanks for sharing! It's great seeing these old clips of paco

Mark,

For the bulerias i think we can add another one,

Loud stamping +loud Palmas + loud jaleo +no amplification + no space for a Falseta= Guitarist totally drowned out, dissapaointment and headache[:D]



jg7238 -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 24 2010 14:44:05)

here is another clip por Siguiriyas




Ricardo -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 25 2010 14:42:29)

quote:

btw i heard that his dad didn't let him play in tablao's when he was young 'cos he didn't want him to strain his hands playing for dancers unamplified.


These clips are TV show specials. I think the point being (and probably his dad's idea) to show Paco accompanying cante and baile like a good boy, and also he gets featured as a soloist. So a good marketing move, but who knows maybe paco WANTED to do this playing for dancers thing despite what his dad wanted. Either way it appears he knows his ****. Fandangos of Porrina in the same show were really excellent too.



NormanKliman -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 25 2010 14:46:54)

Thanks for posting jg.

I see that some of you don't like this kind of stuff. I'll grant you that it sounds outdated, but I greatly prefer this over some modern tendencies.

Abusive major seventh chords + fingers gently gliding across treble strings + whiny singer who sounds like depressed teenage girl trying to imitate a sickly Camarón + liberal amounts of cocaine + clueless cosmopolitan audience who thinks they're wonderful = [:'(]

If flamenco sounds noisy and/or gives you a headache that's one thing, but I think it's far worse if it puts you to sleep or sounds too pretty and precious.
EDIT: Of course, if it's noisy AND the timing is even just a hair off, that's pretty awful, too.

I know it's all subjective and about personal preference, but I do think that objectively flamenco sounds better when singers push more air out of their lungs and guitarists hit the strings harder.



Ricardo -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 25 2010 14:55:04)

quote:

If flamenco sounds noisy and/or gives you a headache that's one thing, but I think it's far worse if it puts you to sleep or sounds too pretty and precious.


I know exactly what you mean. I think the problem is not so much with style vs simple dynamics. I mean some great old flamenco still made use of extreme dynamics. Like Melchor for example. And many old singers used the voice that way too. But the darn dancer's palmas and stomping tends to be at one level (fortissitissitissimo) at all times and it leaves both guitar and singer little room to be expressive with dynamics. Amplification changes the situation a lot. Nowadays the dancers are so jealous about a good sound of singers and guitar that they want 90 mics built into the bottom of a wood floor so THEY can be heard![:D][:D]



mezzo -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 25 2010 16:31:21)

listen to this little Chocolate's anecdote at 4:00...[:D][:D] excellent

"no me vas a tocar nunca jamas en tu vida por solea!!" rofl [:-]





NormanKliman -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 25 2010 17:21:49)

Just to be fair, what he really says is: "Y ya digo, 'Mira, él por soleá no me va a tocar más en su vida!'" The story is that he sang three letras, the last one being a closing style, but Paco kept playing, so he sang another three letras and ended up singing much more than he'd planned. His comment roughly translates as, "So I said, 'That's the last time I let this guy accompany me por soleá!'"

The guy speaking after Moraíto is Felipe Maya, Jerónimo's father and one of the guitarists who was in on the Caño Roto school from the beginning. Excellent musician and a very intelligent man.

Very nice video, Mezzo, thanks for uploading it. It looks like it's part of a series or something.



mezzo -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 25 2010 17:57:33)

quote:

It looks like it's part of a series or something.

yes it's a documentary focused on the story of the guitarra flamenca. In 6 part.

The first part is




I enjoyed the way the "specialist" guy speaks...[:)]



jg7238 -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 25 2010 18:01:24)

My pleasure Norman. I really enjoy these old clips by Paco. To truly and completely understand Flamenco you really have to accompany for a long time before going solo like Sabicas once said. Thanks for the great video Mezzo. Very interesting.


quote:

Thanks for posting jg.



Ricardo -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 25 2010 18:18:35)

Well, could have happened as he described, which yeah would be embarrasingly bad for Paco, but honeslty, my experiences with singers is that if you are new guy, and especially young "hot shot" or simply payo or foreign, they love to give you a hard time and sing things in an unusual way to teach a lesson or you put you in your place. Then they can go around and say, "ah see he only plays his falsetas and knows nothing about cante...." etc. But if you DO happen to catch them on their BS, and make no "mistakes" then they will give you praises to others that you know your stuff.

But in some cases, even not enough that you get the tonos or the weird endings or whatever, if they still need to "haze" you, then they can say something like "well he got the tonos and has technique, but the soniquete is all wrong...." etc etc so you can never win. Pain in the butt, but when you get used to it, is no big deal and you just keep getting experience until you get like Moraito who makes 0 mistakes in any situation. (relatively speaking).

After all, guys like Chocolate and Agujetas are a true pain in the butt to accompany por solea because they are all over the map in terms of compas. So it is easy to get thrown by them unless you are really paying attention. If I remember correct, Mairena was "worried" about being accompanied by PDL, but afterwards was impressed.

Ricardo



NormanKliman -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 25 2010 18:43:25)

quote:

...if you are new guy, and especially young "hot shot" or simply payo or foreign, they love to give you a hard time and sing things in an unusual way to teach a lesson or you put you in your place.


Yes, I agree 100%. A few years ago, I had a friend who had many years of experience playing the guitar and he sang and danced well, too. We used to get together for dinner + guitars at my place, and one day it occurred to me to ask him to sing por soleá so I could accompany him. I'd been studying all the styles of the Soler classification and I felt confident. He just grinned and launched right into this weird style:

http://www.canteytoque.es/soleares.htm#anojerez

I laughed and asked why he started with such an odd style and he just looked the other way and changed the subject. I've had a few other situations like that, but without the friendship involved, like at a party where a guy sang a long and convoluted Camarón bulería as the first cante of the first thing we did that evening. I stuck it out but put the guitar down when he finished. He asked me to do something else and I gave the guitar to someone else. He quickly grinned and asked what was wrong. Turned out fine in the end, though. In a similar episode not long ago, the singer kept stopping saying that something was wrong (everything was fine). A few minutes later he wanted to try again and he started in the middle of the verse, where he'd trailed off, but I stuck to him like a bad reputation (argh [8D]), which went over well in the end.

I guarantee though that every one of them, whether or not they want to admit it, is aware that it could be said that our afición is much stronger than theirs, because we have to work so hard for it.

So, ¡¡¡Ole nuestros cojones!!!

And Merry Christmas![:)]



mezzo -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 25 2010 18:50:17)

quote:

...if you are new guy, and especially young "hot shot" or simply payo or foreign, they love to give you a hard time and sing things in an unusual way to teach a lesson or you put you in your place.


hey guys i thought it was an urban legend [:D]



Morante -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 26 2010 13:50:53)

quote:

After all, guys like Chocolate and Agujetas are a true pain in the butt to accompany por solea because they are all over the map in terms of compas..


Recuerdo a Chocolate con Carrión, en directo. Cantó cada copla de soleá fuera de compás: parece que prefiere el compás de 14, más o menos. Carrión, como el buen professional que es, sonría y seguía tocando. Fué muy aplaudido.

Una vez pregunté a Pasqual de Lorca como accompañar a un cantaor sin compás: me dijó: "sigue tocando, dandolo los acordes y cuando termina, haz el cierre y empezar a compás: la majoría no sabrá la diferencia."



XXX -> RE: Young Paco de Lucia accompanying por Bulerias and Alegrias (Dec. 26 2010 17:32:22)

interesting that Paco does NOT only use the x 1 2 kind of tapping this time [;)]
about modern, im just happy that we live in a time where the guitarrist is respected more. i think it has done much good for the muscial and overall artistic level of flamenco shows/repertoire.



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