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Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 15 2010 18:01:02)

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Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 15 2010 18:41:23)

succes is a weird thing.

I´ve made 2,5mm with succes for noodling around alone at home, but most players need 3mm (or more) when playing in "real" flamenco environments



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 15 2010 18:47:45)

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Ruphus -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 16 2010 11:09:34)

If I may try to answer this:

It should have to do with attack. The stronger strings being hit, the higher it needs the action to be.
As "flamenco environment" ususally means a noisy one, guitars must be played harder to be heard. Played hard with a too low action however would result in too much clank ( and too low volume in the same time ).

One could try working around by hitting the strings more parallel to the top ( vertical in relation to the ground ) to somewhat avoid overly rattling, but that again wouldn´t contribute to get the best sound out of the instrument.

Too low action and powerful attack don´t go together well.

Ruphus



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 16 2010 11:49:46)

Thanks Ruphus. I agree

You explained it better than me. (I wrote an answer but it disappeared because my internet went down)



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 16 2010 12:36:33)

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sig -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 16 2010 15:41:07)

I totally agree with Ruphus and Anders. My original Flamenco is a Burguet 1F with super low action. Its a great instrument but I found that when I started accompanying with it, It couldn't cut thru the noise of a live situation even amp'd, the sound got muddy with lots of buzz. I actually shimmed it up and that helped but with my strong right hand, not quite enough.

I recently purchased one of Andy Culpepper's instruments, a Blanca and it works great. Just the right action and buzz but not too much for when things really get cooking during a Bulerias with dancers!

I feel there are diminishing rewards with low action. Easier to play but more buzz and less clarity especially in live environments.
Sig--



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 16 2010 16:25:36)

quote:

So what you guys are saying is that the technique of the guitarist will also play an important factor about how low the action can be without the guitar starting to rattle>>>


I´ve met players (bad ones) capable of making whatever guitar rattle and buzz. And I´ve met others (good ones) capable of playing loud with a low setup. As Ruphus said, the angle of attack of the right hand is pretty important. Also playing hard with big movements of the right hand is not specially flamenco and gives a lot of rattle and buzz. Playing hard with short and controlled movements in the right hand is very flamenco and sounds awesome.

I find that going lower than 3mm is not of any real use. Its low enough and perfectly comfortable for the left hand. The need for going lower is psycological. what is the difference in the stringheight over first fret between a guitar with 2,7mm over the 12th fret and one which has 3mm? It can be felt, but its VERY little



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 16 2010 17:28:37)

3.0 on the basses is about as low as I go but I've gone down to about 2.3 on the trebles with no problem.



jshelton5040 -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 16 2010 21:48:45)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

One could try working around by hitting the strings more parallel to the top ( vertical in relation to the ground ) to somewhat avoid overly rattling, but that again wouldn´t contribute to get the best sound out of the instrument.


Not trying to provoke an argument but I disagree with this statement. The most volume with least buzzing is accomplished by pressing the string toward the top of the guitar not sideways. If you don't believe me try it.



jshelton5040 -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 16 2010 21:52:56)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

I find that going lower than 3mm is not of any real use. Its low enough and perfectly comfortable for the left hand. The need for going lower is psycological. what is the difference in the stringheight over first fret between a guitar with 2,7mm over the 12th fret and one which has 3mm? It can be felt, but its VERY little

Anders,
Are you taking these measurements from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the 6th string?

I played flamenco guitar professionally for over 30 years both as accompanist and soloist and I would never have had a guitar set to 3mm.



mark indigo -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 16 2010 22:49:01)

quote:

I would never have had a guitar set to 3mm


do you meant you had them set higher or lower?



jshelton5040 -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 16 2010 23:25:01)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

I would never have had a guitar set to 3mm


do you meant you had them set higher or lower?

Lower, usually around 2.5 to 2.8mm and I am known to have very heavy hands.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 17 2010 7:40:43)

Yes, of course I mean from top fret to bottom string. Thats what is relevant.
As I wrote. Some can play guitars with lower actions than others and it also depends on you tonal ideal. A lot of traditional flamenco players like the sound of a lot of buzzing and ratling. They like the sound of killing the strings so they play with a low setup.
Most more modern players prefer that the big chords that they play can be heard, so the prefer a slightly higher action.
Setup is a very personal thing.



Stephen Eden -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 17 2010 8:35:26)

Perhaps we should all play the standard Classical action for a year then move back to the standard flamenco action. you'd feel the difference!



aarongreen -> RE: Lowest action? (Dec. 17 2010 13:49:19)

One of my professional clients (Juanito Pascual) has his guitar set up at 3mm across the board. He likes the higher treble action as it allows the guitar to breathe more and produces a bigger sound. Lower and you get more snapping and the notes don't ring as long. Which is fine, if thats what you want.

As Anders said, it's a very personal thing.



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