Baile Comp. Improv (Full Version)

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samuel -> Baile Comp. Improv (Dec. 13 2010 21:47:43)

First of Hi to everyone since I am new to the forum. I've gained a great deal of knowledge from the foro over the past month or two from browsing all the great posts on here.

My question is this: I had a gig this past weekend accompanying a dancer for the first time by myself with no singer, just her and I. We had some pre-choreographed routines (which usually involve cante) that went over well in my mind because basically I could fill in the sections that needed it because I knew what was coming. Then we had a few numbers where it was basically play my intro and then just follow her. Without working out a sections for me to (insert falseta here) I found myself basically accompanying with chords and generally not being happy with my ability to make it sound more interesting. I know that since it was more first gig of this nature I didn't have many tricks up my sleeve to fill in the blanks. So, how do you more seasoned accompanists deal with these situations? I know these situations generally require to just jump in and get your feet wet, but I am hoping with all the knowledgable accompanists on the foro maybe I can learn a few tricks of the trade. Very vague question, I know, but thanks in advance!



John O. -> RE: Baile Comp. Improv (Dec. 13 2010 22:14:31)

It comes with experience and watching a lot of accompanyment - you can get a lot of ideas from dance videos in Youtube.

There are the basic elements that you have to know. Otherwise basically look for the percussive themes she has choregraphed and her movements, most important is whether it's even or uneven (like triplets). You should be able to see the end of one theme and the start of a new one.

Count the compás of the themes, think in sets of four or six compás, it'll usually be like that. If it's a 12-beat is it escobilla like marking the 1 or letra like marking the 12?

If there's no or little percussion from her feet you can be pretty free, but the more you can inspire her to do what she's doing with your playing, the better. Sometimes I get the feeling I'm just playing chords and not doing enough when the dancer would actually rather have it that way. You don't wanna overdo it, especially when she should be in the spotlight.

Now you need to think to all the falsetas you've ever learned for that palo. You should be trying these things in dance classes. Make sure it's only as difficult as your dancer will understand, don't try anything from Chicuelo if you can't play it like a metronome or she's not into that. The more you know, the quicker you'll come up with something good.

Often you can just take a chord progression and work your way through it with some extra base notes or a little melody line and it's enough.



samuel -> RE: Baile Comp. Improv (Dec. 13 2010 22:38:33)

Thanks for the insight John. I figured it is something that just comes from doing it a lot. Are there any videos in particular that are good on Youtube that are improv? Most of the one that I've seen on Youtube that are all music (i.e. no breaks for cante) seem to be choreographed or it might be that they are just so good that they seem choreographed to me. It is probably the latter, but some direction to some good examples would be greatly appreciated.



John O. -> RE: Baile Comp. Improv (Dec. 14 2010 7:37:43)

Anything on a stage or videotaped usually won't be improv, it's all exactly planned to look so perfect. You can still use those ideas though.

Fiesta is improv, the rest is rehearsed. If you don't rehearse then you can only rely on how well you know the dancer and your experience to react.

This shows how sometimes just chords can be enough:

Doing what the feet do is more entertaining than you'd think. The problem with something like the intro is making sure it fits with the footwork and doesn't get stomped out if there's too much footwork - eventually you get used to changing things around in falsetas, the more simple the idea the better. You should think more in structures. Things like 1:46 are carefully planned, you can't improvise that. The falseta 3:10 can be used anywhere where a singer would usually sing.

This one's cool:

At 0:43 you can try following with p-i-m arpeggio and then alzapua with pull-offs starting at 7 like this guitarist does. Otherwise just groove along with what he's doing and try hitting those breaks with him, it's more than enough.



mark indigo -> RE: Baile Comp. Improv (Dec. 14 2010 9:31:19)

i second what john is saying here, also that it seems to me the more you rehearse, the more you are free to improvise if you feel like it (or if the carefully planned choreography goes wrong[&:])

some people can meet up and perform with little or no rehearsal (eg. for a peña or tablao show, i'm not talking about a theatre show), but they are usually really experienced, so they have already rehearsed and performed something very similar already countless times, and often they won't pick up all the little breaks etc. in these circumstances.



samuel -> RE: Baile Comp. Improv (Dec. 14 2010 14:49:02)

Thanks for the advice guys. I liked the examples given and some of the ideas such as doubling the footwork and and hitting the stops are things that I (usually) can get right and follow. It seems to me that it just takes a lot of practice to be able to pull of whole pieces improv with just guitar and dance. If you have singers and percussion it seems to be easier to do it on the fly because it fills things out more.



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