The right guitar (Full Version)

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Message

ArtZumer -> The right guitar (Dec. 4 2010 5:54:52)

Hi everybody this is my first thread and I just have some questions regarding buying a flamenco guitar.
I have been playing classical guitar passionately for two years and flamenco non intensively for the last year. I really want to take my flamenco further and I have come to Spain (from Australia) to do this. I am in Madrid for the next two days before going down to Sevilla where I am going to learn at Taller Flamenco and was intending to buy a guitar down there. Today I did some looking around and didn't find much in the way of flamenco guitars but one man at the shop said he would be willing to sell me a flamenco guitar of his own which he has in storage. It is a Jose Ramirez from the 1930's and he said he would sell it for around 1500 euro. This is the most I'm willing to spend.

My questions are:
Would the guitar be alright moving from the dry climate of Brisbane to the more humid weather of Brisbane?

I do not feel I have enough experience with Flamenco guitars so what should I look for? And ideally would any experienced flamenco guitarists in Madrid be able to come look at it with me?

Thanks, Atienne



keith -> RE: The right guitar (Dec. 4 2010 10:00:10)

a ramirez from the 30's for only 1500 euros? i would be very wary of a deal like that given a ramirez from that era could bring a whole lot more--maybe 5x if not more (condition being very good). the guitar could be a trashed up beater or possibly a fake--several japanese made guitars had ramirez looking headstocks.

having read several posts about people going to spain to buy a guitar from a shop it seems like it is unlikely someone can walk in off the street and buy a good to great guitar. several shops have factories build guitars for them and they slap in their label and sell it as one of their own--i had a bellido a while back that was an alhambra 7fc but with a bellido label and stamp (no signature). since i bought the guitar used i do not know if the buyer paid a "bellido price" or an "alhambra price" for the guitar.

by the way, the previous owner of this guitar lived about 26 miles or so from chicago. HemeolaMan--this guitar came from your neck of the woods--do you know the story behind it? (the owner lived in west chicago). i have since sold the guitar--it was a good guitar but it was an alhambra factory guitar not a bellido shop guitar.

then there is the issue of a shop building a guitar to be sold through the shop. that guitar is probably not their finest work since most guitars are built to be sold to the person who ordered the guitar or a distributor.

this is not to say you cannot get a good guitar. getting someone with flamenco experience to accompany you to the stores is a good idea--good luck.

as to the humidity issue--i will let the luthiers here speak on that one.



gbv1158 -> RE: The right guitar (Dec. 4 2010 12:42:42)

quote:

It is a Jose Ramirez from the 1930's and he said he would sell it for around 1500 euro


unless the seller does not live on Mars, it mast be a fake Ramirez considering that the new Ramirez fl2 cost is around 2000 euro.

ciao



XXX -> RE: The right guitar (Dec. 4 2010 13:00:44)

Its a big handicap that you dont know what to look for. Granted you find a nice, willing to help guitar teacher spending time with you to find a guitar, you need to be able to make a decision on yourself when you are testing it, best teacher cant help here.

But while you are there it could be the best opportunity to try out as much flamenco guitars as you can. I would ask everybody around where to look for and i would also look in Sevilla not only Madrid. And maybe play some teachers guitars to see how those feel, to be able to separate them from the tourist guitars.
Also have in mind possible import duties to Australia etc

oh hands off that Ramirez deal [8|]



rogeliocan -> RE: The right guitar (Dec. 4 2010 13:26:18)

I was at Taller Flamenco. What you can do is ask your teacher where to look. They will know. Then you can go and pick some that you like (sound). Then you can ask your teacher to go with you to try the ones you picked instead of your regular lesson, so you will have an hour and a half to do this.
The teachers are very nice, and they won't have a problem doing this.

For import duties, it is a good point, maybe you can ask the shop to give you an invoice with smaller price.

As for the weather, I'm not sure if where you are from is dry or humid but Sevilla gets really humid so your main fear is dry weather. Luthiers are better to validate this.



mark indigo -> RE: The right guitar (Dec. 4 2010 13:38:24)

quote:

ask your teacher where to look


if you are inexperienced then it is best to have someone with you who is experienced, so take this advice and wait 'til you get to Sevilla



ArtZumer -> RE: The right guitar (Dec. 4 2010 22:19:50)

Thanks everybody for the great help. I have done a lot of research and the guitar I spoke of ended being made by Jose Gonzalez a luthier which Jose Ramirez (the first) trained under. When he died his son in law carried on the company till the Civil War and this guitar was one of his. When I went and played it, it was very nice, with a really beautiful tone. I will go to Sevilla anyway and try and find a guitar there. The man who had the guitar - in a little storage flat - had an incredible range of instruments from antique contrabass' violins, pianos, guitars, and plenty more. He also had some rather well played (beaten up) guitars from the 1900's which were amazing so all in all it was a good experience anyway.



elroby -> [Deleted] (Dec. 4 2010 23:31:50)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 5 2012 4:26:41



rogeliocan -> RE: The right guitar (Dec. 4 2010 23:59:05)

Yeah but I added a fake finger. I was thinking that it's a good thing I don't really have an extra one like that, it would only add complexity to the already overwhelming chords.



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