Closing up #7 (Full Version)

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Andy Culpepper -> Closing up #7 (Dec. 1 2010 21:31:30)

Just put the back on my #7 today, thought I would share a couple of pics that I thought were nice..



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Andy Culpepper -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 1 2010 21:32:39)

..



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Anders Eliasson -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 1 2010 21:39:47)

looks good.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 3 2010 0:28:41)

[:)]



HeavyWood -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 3 2010 5:29:40)

Looks very clean and precise Andy!

Do you always do 5 braces or do you also try 7?

Is there a difference of sound, and playability or pulsation?



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 3 2010 8:24:46)

Heavy wood
This Barbero design uses the closing struts almost like braces. They are more vertical than horisontal. So its almost a 7 brace system. Its a weird bracing system not looking and working like anything else.
I´ve built and build with 5 and 7 braces. They have different voices but its more in the hand of builder than anything else.

Andy, how thick and wide are the 5 braces? Just curious. I´ve never built this particular system.



HeavyWood -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 3 2010 9:53:40)

Thanks for clarifying that point Anders...
Your guitars sound kick-ass in your Youtube vids.

I definitely like the Barbero sound achieved on Sabicas' 'Flamenco Puro'

I have a Reyes inspired guitar(negra) now, sounds very good, but it plays
very stiff even with medium gauge strings.

I am presently still saving for a new one.

Maybe a blanca this time.
So many choices...wood, bracing, scale...



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 3 2010 12:41:01)

Thanks HeavyWood.
I use a normal 7 fan on my classicals with open harmonic bars and I'm going to try a hybrid bracing system on my next Flamenco. People tell me that all my guitars are pretty soft and easy to play although it's still kind of a mystery as to why. For sure a 5 fan with no bridge patch is pretty soft. But remember that in almost any fan brace layout since Torres, you have those 5 braces under the bridge. My outer 2 lie directly under the very ends of the bridge. So when you go to 7 you are just adding 2 more outboard of those 5.
This is the first time I have tried a bridge patch with this design, but it's a continuous 1.25 mm with the fans notched over, not a Barbero-style.
All the braces are 6.5 mm wide, the 5 in the middle are 3.7-4 high and the "cutoffs" are about 2.5 high.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 4 2010 9:24:32)

Andy
Thanks for the info. I´m currently working on a 5 braces system and I have the same thickness.
I´ve seen 5 braces system wher the outer two were outside the bridge. There´s no real rules. Evererything has been done.

Heavywood.
Thanks for the nice words about my guitars. A stiff Reyes is not very origial. The Reyes guitars that I´ve tried have all been pretty soft.



rogeliocan -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 4 2010 12:16:24)

Hi Andy,
I know nothing about construction but that looks like nice and clean work. Good job.

Could you tell me what you guys mean by 'soft'. I don't think you mean volume.
Thanks.



HeavyWood -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 5 2010 4:33:45)

Rogeliocan,

Soft refers to the playability, or as Anders calls it, 'pulsation', of a guitar.

My Reyes copy by Johnny Walker is a very nice guitar, sounds great,
but even with medium tension Pro Arte or La Bella strings, it is very stiff
to both hands. I just picked up some Pro Arte light gauge to try today.

Playing my guitar is more like a fight than fun,and it
has taken a while to build the strength and endurance
of my left(fretting) hand, especially.



rogeliocan -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 5 2010 6:35:35)

Thanks HeavyWood,
Thanks for the definition of pulsation also, I was not sure what that meant but was pretty certain it was about a sound quality not a physical characteristic, good to know.

And is softness, apart from the type of strings and string height (I suppose) only affected by what is under the bridge and the stiffness of that area?



HeavyWood -> RE: Closing up #7 in reply to rogeliocan (Dec. 5 2010 8:54:51)

rogeliocan,

I'll leave your question about construction under the bridge and
bracing type to the luthiers deteresa1 and Anders, but I imagine,
besides the scale length and action height, the bracing type is the
culprit in dealing with a hard-playing guitar.

My action came very high when the guitar (660mm scale for my large hands)
was new, and it took quite a bit of lowering just to get it to apprx, 3.1mm at
the 12th fret.

It still played very stiff with my preferred medium gauge strings;
The LaBella 2001 Flamenco medium trebles with ProArte medium basses.

As of this morning, I just strung it up with some ProArte lights, and I am
much happier with the feel, even though I seem to have lost a little volume
and brilliance from the trebles.

I will have to order some 2001 lights to try also, but the ProArte were
available in town.

The feel is much more supple and responsive to my touch though, now.
My chording hand feels much more relaxed.



Tom Blackshear -> RE: Closing up #7 in reply to rogeliocan (Dec. 5 2010 11:52:09)

You might try the D'addario J46 hard tension classical strings as they are what Vicente Amigo uses on his Reyes guitar.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 6 2010 8:37:14)

What Vicente uses is his thing but the Reyes that I´ve tried was pretty soft and liked high tension strings.

A stiff guitar remains stiff even with Ultra low tension strings. A soft guitar also remains soft even with extra high tension. To control pulsation when you build is not easy. Especially because each soundboard is different and has to be dealt with on its own premisses.

Yes, it has to do with what is under the bridge, the soundboard thickness and bracing.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 7 2010 0:10:24)

I just played this one in the white today and it's fearsomely loud... but I think I could get used to it [:D] It's going to the classical guitar store in Philly when it's done if anybody in that area is interested.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 9 2010 20:47:44)

Here she is waiting for finish in that "sexy reclining pose" favored by luthiers



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Anders Eliasson -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 10 2010 8:18:48)

yummy...

Might try that position one day with one of babes.[8D]



ralexander -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 10 2010 13:19:22)

really nice, Andy - I hope you'll share a clip of this one when you get her done.



Tom Blackshear -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 10 2010 13:41:12)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deteresa1

I just played this one in the white today and it's fearsomely loud... but I think I could get used to it [:D] It's going to the classical guitar store in Philly when it's done if anybody in that area is interested.


Very nice, and it appears on your website that you are doing well with the color on your finishes. Do you use a spray on color or do you wipe it on by hand?

One thing I miss is having a central vacuum to keep my shop air clean. I didn't design it into my shop until I realized that I needed one. Now, I'll have to figure out how to add one.



jshelton5040 -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 10 2010 14:10:57)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear

One thing I miss is having a central vacuum to keep my shop air clean. I didn't design it into my shop until I realized that I needed one. Now, I'll have to figure out how to add one.

Tom, I had a central vacuum in my previous shop but with my new shop I decided against it. I have a dedicated vacuum (dust collector) on the thickness sander and a smaller model on wheels which is normally hooked to the table saw but in a matter seconds can be disconnected and attached to the resaw or bandsaw. Even though I used 4" rigid pipe on the previous central vacuum it didn't have enough suction and was clumsy to use (how do you hook up a table saw without having a pipe underfoot?) and the cost of a really powerful central system with installation is prohibitive.



Tom Blackshear -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 10 2010 14:30:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear

One thing I miss is having a central vacuum to keep my shop air clean. I didn't design it into my shop until I realized that I needed one. Now, I'll have to figure out how to add one.

Tom, I had a central vacuum in my previous shop but with my new shop I decided against it. I have a dedicated vacuum (dust collector) on the thickness sander and a smaller model on wheels which is normally hooked to the table saw but in a matter seconds can be disconnected and attached to the resaw or bandsaw. Even though I used 4" rigid pipe on the previous central vacuum it didn't have enough suction and was clumsy to use (how do you hook up a table saw without having a pipe underfoot?) and the cost of a really powerful central system with installation is prohibitive.


I apologize for not being clearer. I have a 1900 cfm vac for my performax sander and it would probably work if I can design extra efficient flex pipes around the shop. It's just making the time to figure out what to do. In the meantime I'm using hand vacs like you suggest, but they don't keep the air as clean as I like. Perhaps a separate air cleaner with a hepa filter might work for the small dust particles in the air.



beno -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 10 2010 17:53:53)

congrats Andy, looks fine!



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 10 2010 20:51:45)

Thanks Anders, ralexander, Tom and beno.
Tom, I do French polish of shellac by hand.
Right now I'm sharing a shop with another luthier who set up the shop. The central dust collection is kind of a must with various thickness sanders and other toys. But I think when I set up my own shop I'm going to work with fewer machines and won't need the heavy duty dust collection.



jshelton5040 -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 10 2010 22:48:18)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear
I apologize for not being clearer. I have a 1900 cfm vac for my performax sander and it would probably work if I can design extra efficient flex pipes around the shop. It's just making the time to figure out what to do. In the meantime I'm using hand vacs like you suggest, but they don't keep the air as clean as I like. Perhaps a separate air cleaner with a hepa filter might work for the small dust particles in the air.

I should have read your note more carefully. You were talking about clean air which isn't going to happen with dust collectors. You need an air filter for that. There are several on the market. The one we use cleans the air in the assembly room in about 8 minutes. Definitely a welcome and not too costly addition.



Tom Blackshear -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 11 2010 1:28:49)

Thanks John,

I've known for some time that I would have to get one of these things but have been putting it off. I'd better do it before it's too late :-)



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 11 2010 7:46:40)

A good air cleaner is a must. I have a Jet which is totally oversized, but it cleans the air very fast.
The only backdraw is that these machines, (Aircleaner and dehumidifier) even though not being really noisy like a dust collector, do that listening to music in the workshop is not so fun anymore.[:-]



Kevin James Shanahan -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 11 2010 10:52:10)

I once went to the dentist and they offer music clips to watch while they worked . I choose the Gypsy Kings because I liked them obviously , however while they where drilling and scraping at my teeth and I'm watching the Gypsy Kings It was really Bizare . I think machinery has a future in techno , and some things just don't mix.



Kevin James Shanahan -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 11 2010 10:53:34)

Andy #7 looks awsome , Did you sell the negra?



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Closing up #7 (Dec. 11 2010 19:13:30)

quote:

Andy #7 looks awsome , Did you sell the negra?


Thanks. No I didn't sell it, I might drop the price again soon [8|]



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