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NormanKliman -> RE: solea al golpe (Dec. 28 2010 8:34:48)
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You can repeat the conclusion of any style with A-B.......I've already said upthread:
quote:
Ooops sorry. Did you add that part cuz I missed it before or didn't see it before I posted.
No pasa nada. There's a lot of information here that I'm editing several times after posting. This morning I realized that Juaniquí 4 should actually be in the "pattern 3" category.
quote:
Anyway, I only notice that repeat of AB at the END, in the formula 1 soleas (cuz they are ABCD). But you say it can happen in any style like Frijones 2? Or you mean any style of your pattern 1 group?
In theory, it can happen in any style that repeats the conclusion, but, because of the rhyme scheme (first and third lines for three-line verse and second and fourth lines for four-line verse), what happens is that four-line verse are sometimes used to substitute three-line verse (as long as the words still make sense) by starting with the "B" line, and this is a typical circumstance in which you hear "CD-AB" in the conclusion, although the "A" line doesn't have to be included like that. It's not complicated but it's not easily explained with words. Let's look at a few examples using this well-known four-line verse:
¿A quién le voy a contar
las fatiguitas que me están pasando?
se le voy a contar a la tierra
cuando me estén enterrando
It's usually sung AB-BB-CD-CD as the style Joaquín el de La Paula 1 (Talega recorded it):
¿A quién le contaré yo
la fatiguillita que estoy pasando
fatiga que estoy pasando
la fatiguillita que estoy pasando?
se la voy a contar a la tierra
cuando me estén enterrando
se lo voy a contar a la tierra
cuando me estén enterrando
You could easily sing the conclusion as CD-AB instead of CD-CD. Makes no difference because "pasando" and "enterrando" rhyme:
¿A quién le contaré yo
la fatiguillita que estoy pasando
fatiga que estoy pasando
la fatiguillita que estoy pasando?
se la voy a contar a la tierra
cuando me estén enterrando
¿A quién le contaré yo
la fatiguillita que estoy pasando?
Now then, let's imagine this verse sung as Frijones 2 by starting with the "B" line. The results would be ungainly, but the rhyme scheme would remain intact:
Las fatiguitas que me están pasando
las fatiguitas que me están pasando ay
se le voy a contar a la tierra
cuando me estén enterrando
¿A quién le voy a contar
las fatigas que estoy pasando?
It's now B-B-CD-AB (adapted to three-line A-A-BC-BC pattern). By singing the conclusion CD-AB that first line is included, but it's not necessary. You could sing B-B-CD-CD (or even B-B-CD), neutering the four-liner:
Las fatiguitas que me están pasando
las fatiguitas que me están pasando ay
se le voy a contar a la tierra
cuando me estén enterrando
se le voy a contar a la tierra
cuando me estén enterrando
Notice that the arrangemet BC-AB (AB in the repetition of the conclusion but with three-line verse) won't work because of the rhyme scheme:
Me llamo Curro Frijones
me llamo Curro Frijones
y no me caso con la Farota
por no echarme obligaciones
me llamo Curro.... (doesn't work)
Here's an example using the style Enrique El Mellizo 2 and a version recorded by Pastora in 1914. The usual pattern is AAA-BC-BC, but she sings BBB-CD-AB:
(Hago) a las piedras llorar
(hago) a las piedras llorar
(hago) a las piedras llorar
y en ver con las grandes ducas
que yo te salgo a buscar
cuando por las calles voy
hago a las piedras llorar
So, you can repeat the conclusion with AB but only with four-line verse. The thing is, four-line verse can be used in any style, provided that the "message" of the verse is still intelligible.
quote:
Might be Morao didn't used to call em buleria corta or larga cuz they always thought of em as "soleares" just like frijones etc.
But the whole concept of calling those cantes bulerías (BpS) comes from Jerez. As far as I can tell, some artists from Santiago started saying "soleá por bulería" in the 60s or 70s, and that might have been an influence from working in Madrid (I'm guessing). In La Plazuela (San Miguel) they still say "bulerías para escuchar."
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Well, as you state next this way of putting together patterns is to compare cantes not for helping with learning how to accompany them.
Indirectly, the patterns do help to learn to accompany because the only way to accompany well is to know the cantes. The problem is that some of the patterns are very similar. For example A-A-BC-BC (pattern 2) becomes ABC-BC (pattern 3) if the singer doesn't feel like repeating the first line. So, as I've been saying, the patterns aren't rules (least of all for singers), but they do represent what usually ends up happening. Also, as you and I have been saying on this forum for some time now, accompanists have to know what part of the verse is being sung, and the patterns show how the different lines can be arranged.
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I don't see the point to compare cantes this way and not tie in the lyric formula to the musical phrasing too...
The harmonic implications are there but they aren't clearly seen here on the forum because I can't post the tables that I'm adding to my website now. The last post on page 1 of this thread has the harmonic information in parentheses and on my webpage it will appear in columns. There are still some nuances in some cantes that aren't clearly represented, but nearly all of the styles fall neatly into the "II-I" or "I7-IVm" categories. In some cases, there are alternatives other than what I've indicated, especially in the II-I category. In any case, it's just a very general outline, and the little details will depend on each singer's delivery.
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...but maybe that is only because I want to have useful blue prints for accompaniment.
Me too. It's the whole reason for the work I'm doing now.
I appreciate your feedback, Ricardo. Please don't hestitate to challenge anything that doesn't seem to make sense.
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