The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Full Version)

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Ron.M -> The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 14 2010 15:44:18)

Last Thursday morning there was a trailer for the news programme "The World at One", where they mentioned all the news items they would be looking at, ending with "...and how the use of the name Flamenco is to be protected.."

I practically jumped out of my seat. [:D]

I think they were meaning as in "Scotch" whisky or "Champagne" or "Parmesan" cheese etc.

I listened to the whole programme, but sadly the item was dropped for breaking news.

Nothing on the Friday programme either. [:@]

Anyone know anything about this? Is it an EU thing? Who is making the application, Spain?

Had a look on Google...but nothing...

cheers,

Ron




edguerin -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 14 2010 17:20:59)

Check out
here




Ron.M -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 14 2010 18:02:26)

quote:

Check out
here


Good stuff, Ed!

So...would this mean that things could not be described as "Flamenco" unless they come from Andalucia or what?

Jeez!.....This could open a whole can of worms![:-] [:D]

cheers,

Ron




Andy Culpepper -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 14 2010 18:28:20)

Not sure how to feel about this but I think it's fine if it's just a symbolic thing, not a legal issue like with Champagne or Jamon serrano... I think they only do that for foods though.

Can I still make Flamenco guitars? [8D] Or will they have to be "fakemenco" guitars or "guitars suitable for percussive strumming" [:D]




rombsix -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 14 2010 22:56:52)

quote:

"guitars suitable for percussive strumming"


[8D][:D]




Chiste de Gales -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 15 2010 1:31:33)

I don't like the idea of a bunch of non artistic bureaucrats being involved with flamenco. Outcasts created our art. We shouldn't get in bed with some government office.




marduk -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 15 2010 3:06:50)

this is interesting, im looking forward to seeing what happens.




XXX -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 15 2010 8:22:06)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chiste de Gales

I don't like the idea of a bunch of non artistic bureaucrats being involved with flamenco. Outcasts created our art. We shouldn't get in bed with some government office.


But flamenco is already in bed with money? Flamencos touring from Brazil to Japan, Australia, .... So, how much worse is it to have it as a trademark?




mezzo -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 15 2010 8:43:28)

This is more about a recognition than a protection.

What is Intangible Cultural Heritage?

Intangible Heritage Lists

An example the Tango argentino is part of it
The Tango




Chiste de Gales -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 15 2010 19:09:05)

Artists being in bed with money at least makes the performers answer to their audience.




XXX -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 15 2010 19:37:22)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chiste de Gales

Artists being in bed with money at least makes the performers answer to their audience.


Well yeah, and having it as a trademark is just a way to get more revenue out of it.
If its ok to sell art for money, than its ok to try to get the maximum amount of money.




Adam -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 15 2010 23:02:01)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mezzo

This is more about a recognition than a protection.

What is Intangible Cultural Heritage?

Intangible Heritage Lists

An example the Tango argentino is part of it
The Tango


Yeah, it does seem like just a recognition thing (and by the UN, too! [:'(]). I don't see anything on their site suggesting that the name would be protected (like sherry or champagne) or anything like that.




NormanKliman -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 16 2010 14:18:30)

I just saw on CNN that it's finally been accepted as intangible cultural heritage. They'd been applying every year for the last few years, so it's about time.

¡Enhorabuena!




Guest -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 16 2010 14:26:44)

Thanks Norman

Interesting post

Just added this as had no real idea about Intangible Cultural Heritage



''Intangible Cultural Heritage means the practices, representations, expressions, knowledge, skills – as well as the instruments, objects, artefacts and cultural spaces associated therewith – that communities, groups and, in some cases, individuals recognize as part of their cultural heritage. This intangible cultural heritage, transmitted from generation to generation, is constantly recreated by communities and groups in response to their environment, their interaction with nature and their history, and provides them with a sense of identity and continuity, thus promoting respect for cultural diversity and human creativity. For the purposes of this Convention, consideration will be given solely to such intangible cultural heritage as is compatible with existing international human rights instruments, as well as with the requirements of mutual respect among communities, groups and individuals, and of sustainable development.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intangible_cultural_heritage




edguerin -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 16 2010 16:34:33)

quote:

¡Enhorabuena!


check here (incl. 10min video)




mezzo -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 16 2010 16:54:58)

is it a good summary? (official bureaucratic video)





NormanKliman -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 16 2010 17:38:06)

quote:

is it a good summary?


In my opinion, it was done with the best of intentions but with typically disappointing results. At least there are some scenes with good artists.

I might have missed it, but I didn't notice a single mention of compás or verse (meter, anonymous authorship, etc.) in the text or video.[8|]

At 1:40, the narrator says, "To complete the picture, at the end of the 18th century, this original version of flamenco was further shaped by the dazzling personality of the gypsies. Since that time, for the people inhabiting the geographic triangle which lies between the mines of La Unión in Murcia, the pastures of Badajoz and the marshes of southern Andalusia, flamenco has meant much more than just beautiful and breathtaking music and dance."

So, they're stating that gypsies had nothing to do with flamenco prior to the late 18th century, and that flamenco subsequently developed in an area that doesn't include Cádiz, Jerez, Almería, Granada, Málaga...[&:] When people talk or write about flamenco, the use of the word "triangle" is a strong indication that they've got their facts wrong.

EDIT: In all fairness, the author was probably trying to describe the area poetically, although IMO the context (of the document and the event) calls for more precise terms.

At 4:54: "In a similar manner, flamenco created the martinetes, those rousing songs of the forge to accompany the rhythm of the hammer striking the anvil (...) and the many other styles which were erased from memory when the activities which justified their existence were closed down."

It's been said that the blacksmiths probably didn't actually sing while they worked because of all the heat and smoke. A much more likely scenario is that they would party at or around the forge but not while working. Also, it makes no sense at all to confirm the existence of "styles which were erased from memory." [:'(]

At 5:58, there's an image of Juan Talega but they credit Pepe el de La Matrona.[:@]




mezzo -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 17 2010 8:57:25)

quote:

I might have missed it, but I didn't notice a single mention of compás or verse

I agree talking about flamenco without mentionning the Compas is not really serious [8|]
Thanks for pointing this out.




Chiste de Gales -> RE: The name "Flamenco" to be protected? (Nov. 18 2010 15:44:20)

Ok- I was fussy about this at first, but I thought of a good result of this:

Music/performing arts schools outside of Spain may take flamenco more seriously because it.




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