Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Full Version)

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rombsix -> Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 5:47:54)

Hola mates,

I've been playing guitar for nine years now, and I think it MUST be time to move on from my classical guitars (that have been rigged to become more flamenco) to a decent flamenco one. If I get to start working as a medical intern in about six months from now, I'll get to start generating some very modest income (finally, after having been a penniless student for the past 23 or so years [:(]) which I hope to dedicate part of to buying a decent flamenco guitar. I plan to buy something in the $2000 range, or so.

The question becomes, knowing that I live in Lebanon (with no available flamenco guitars in the country except for the possibility of a Yamaha CG171SF for about $850, because that's how things are priced here), what is the most appropriate guitar to buy (taking everything into consideration)?

I mean, I probably would like to buy a blanca, because it's cheaper, and I think I like the way blancas sound compared to negras (even though I've NEVER played a negra). But, what brand do I buy? A Culpepper? An Anders? A Navarro? A Hermanos Sanchis Lopez? A student model Conde?

I guess I might be able to find such guitars within the range of $2000 - $3000. The thing that I am worried about, though, is this: I know that luthier-made guitars are the way to go. I never have been able to understand the concept, though, that you have to "order" a guitar, and get stuck buying it regardless of the outcome. And living in Lebanon, that makes it even harder since I need to travel to actually GET to the location where the guitar is at, so I can pick it up and head back home (knowing that ordering something online, and having it get shipped to Beirut through the airport is a sure-plan for the guitar to become fire-wood, or get swiped over at airport customs), making travel costs add up to the guitar's cost. I most-likely will be traveling to the USA (either Atlanta, Houston, Chicago, Los Angeles, or Philadelphia) within the coming six months or so, to take one of the US Medical Licensing Exams. I guess I'll be staying for a week, to get settled in, take the 8-hour exam, and get back home. That seems to me like the most appropriate time to buy a guitar. That, however, restricts me to the guitars available in the USA (which is probably a huge-enough range, unless I'd be missing some brands that might only be found in Spain). I don't see myself traveling to Spain or somewhere else (other than the USA / Canada) anytime soon.

Going back to the concept of buying a luthier-made guitar: I don't think I'll have any fancy or special requests as to how I would like my guitar to be built. It would most likely be standard regarding most measurements and features. I was thinking, probably, that If I were to visit the shop of a luthier, they might have ready-made guitars they've built that I can try out and buy, if I like one of them. Am I being unreasonable asking, "What if I have a luthier build me a guitar, and when I play it I am NOT satisfied with the sound, and don't want to buy it?" Does that ever happen? Can any of you luthiers / pros give me some tips?

This was a bit lengthy, but I am just trying to brainstorm here, and hopefully get to the best solution regarding buying a decent flamenco guitar, with the help and experience of all of you flamencos.

Gracias! [:)]



JasonMcGuire -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 5:50:40)

Castillo or Navarro.



Kevin James Shanahan -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 5:56:29)

I like Andy Culpeppers negra . I would take it without looking at it or playing it . Mainly because I heard the tone on his videos . I am being dragged away now cya.peace



KMMI77 -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 6:09:13)

Hey Romb, I can't wait to see you with a new guitar. It will open up a whole new world for you.

I don't have any new advice that you have not already heard.



aleksi -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 8:21:32)

hi Romb,
I recommend Navarro. I start to realize that my Navarro really is Exelent for the price so if you get the top end model, Im sure you'll be satisfyed.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 8:55:21)

I agree Romb

Yoo need another guitar. Thats for sure. Go for a blanca. It´ll press you more to sound really flamenco. It doesnt have to be one of these ultra bright dry sounding old school ones. Something with a slightly rounder edge and a bit of harmonics will suit you IMO. Later in life, you can get a negra as well.

Good luck. Looking forward to hearing you on another guitar.

(And no, I dont have a guitar that I´m trying to sell you. [;)] Its just an advice)



rogeliocan -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 10:33:25)

Hi,
I live in Canada and buying a guitar here remains difficult. There is one relatively decent shop and it's 5 hours from here, often I have went and not found a guitar I liked, that had the sound I was looking for (the majority are factory guitars).

I am right by the US but the luthiers are far apart and there is no way you can visit all or even a lot of them unless you want to travel a lot of long trips. Then, most have no guitars or only one.

There is the online buying, only Zavaletta and GSI (I know of) have recordings so that's a plus, at least you can hear them although mixing often tints the sound. GSI will have a guitar recorded for you if you ask them, they are very nice.

What you can do is describe the sound you like, with recorded examples to someone where you want to buy a guitar, Spain or the US for example and have them sample guitars from you, eventually if they find one they can show it to you (through web) and buy and ship to you. That is what I am trying now.

I tried Andy's Negra and it is a very good sounding guitar and plays well too, I did not buy it because it was not the sound I was looking for. As I commented in the Four Sevillanas for Four Guitars post, his guitar reminds me of the 2nd guitar, a flamenco sound, more brilliance with less bass. It's been a month so I don't remember the sound clearly, Andy can describe it better. The bases are less than in the recording of the guitar IMO. That's the thing with any recordings.

Finally at $2K US, you won't find a lot of luthier made guitars, I know of none actually although there must be some. With this in mind I would seriously look at Andy's negra.

EDIT:
I forgot, there are the 2nd hand guitars too. I know when I sell a guitar it is normally in perfect condition except for minor scratches, if any. Plus the guitar got to open up because it was played, so also a good option.



gbv1158 -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 11:25:41)

NO DOUBT !: an Anders blanca!

As it happened to me, when you will play it, you will immediately fill in LOVE with her SOUND - no doubt about it!.

ciao.
Giambattista



HolyEvil -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 12:50:49)

Hey El Rumbero..
talking as a person who has no good flamenco guitar stores near him.
The 2 good guitars that I bought, the Eliasson blanca and the Macias negra, 1 was through ebay but was sold by a foro member to another guy in Australia then I got it off the guy in Australia. Another was just through another foro member.
Being totally honest, if they were not sold by foro members, I won't be as keen as I was buying it unseen.
Seriously, don't buy new, buy used, you'll get a better quality guitar (altho used, but as long as it's not too banged up, I don't see the diff).
Maybe buy from the more reliable foro members whom you can trust.
If I haven't got my Macias, I'll jump at Andy's negra being sold.
But buy from someone you can trust and I think it'll be smooth sailing from there.



gounaro -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 13:10:05)

Hi Romb.

I had the same worries when i was decided to buy my first guitar.

1. Choose a blanca.

2. I was between an Anders and a Castillo and i chose Anders. I didnt regret it. It's a guitar that will keep you company for years. Anders sound matures month by month and you will be satisfied.

3. Check also Peter's Tsiorba guitars for third option.

4. I Lebanon, as well as Greece, you dont have the luxury to test a guitar and i know that as well too. So the only option is to buy from reliable luthiers as Anders, Castillo and Tsiorba.

[:D]



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 14:06:50)

Many luthiers give the buyer the option of refusing the guitar if it doesn't suit him--though I can't tell you the policies of individual builders. Asking for special features may cost some money in advance, and make the luthier more reluctant to accept a refusal. It won't hurt to ask. If the buyer refuses, the instrument may go to the next person on the waiting list, so there would be no loss to the luthier.

RNJ



BarkellWH -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 15:15:14)

I strongly recommend a Manuel Adalid Viviana blanca. Zavaleta's (from whom I bought one) has them in inventory for $2,500 (plus shipping). Viviana's have a bright flamenco sound and they are really well-made. Manuel Adalid is the chief luthier for Esteve, but the Viviana is his own line. A first rate guitarra flamenca blanca for the money. Check them out online at Zavaleta's la Casa de Guitarras.

Cheers,

Bill



Ramon Amira -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 15:37:03)

quote:

I strongly recommend a Manuel Adalid Viviana blanca.


I concur on the Viviana. Also for roughly the same price range, if you're in California, you might stop by GSI and try out a Ramirez FL2. It has a great authentic flamenco sound, and looks good too.

http://www.guitarsalon.com/product.php?productid=3312



cosimojack -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 17:10:40)

You won't go wrong with Salvador Castillo...

1. His guitars are excellent...
2. His current prices are in your $2K range.
3. You won't have to wait too long, he builds them fast...
4. It should be a good investment that will keep it's value (every year his guitar prices have gone up a few $100). Mine from 2007, is worth more today than I paid.
5. Will be easy to unload should it not meet your expections and/or if you decide you want to upgrade... with that said, many would argue that there is no such thing as an upgrading from a Castillo, myself included.

Good luck!



gbv1158 -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 17:41:24)

quote:

and try out a Ramirez FL2. It has a great authentic flamenco sound, and looks good too


I have a Ramirez FL2, but to my ears, my Anders blanca is ABSOLUTELY superior!

here is how the Ramirez FL2 sounds :
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD1SgjTK54U)

ciao



Ramon Amira -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 18:03:27)

quote:

I have a Ramirez FL2, but to my ears, my Anders blanca is ABSOLUTELY superior!


Thanks for the audio clip of the FL2, but I posted that link in my original post. It's on the GSI page for the FL2.

As to the Anders, I didn't say that the FL2 was better. I alluded to the FL2 in conjunction with the previous recommendation of the Adalid Viviana. Of course any luthier guitar made by a respected luthier will be superior to a factory guitar.

But Rombsix stated that he is under certain constraints and time limitations. He also expressed a desire to be able to play the guitar before committing to a purchase, and to be able to buy it on the spot and take it home with him, which usually cannot be done with a luthier guitar. I was simply suggesting AN alternative for him to think about.

He also has budget considerations. I don't know how much Anders charges for his guitars, but obviously if it is way more than the cost of the FL2, then that has to be taken into account. On the other hand, if the cost of the Anders is close, then there's nothing to think about, except still for not being able to play it first.



gbv1158 -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 18:25:18)

quote:

I don't know how much Anders charges for his guitars


I belive He charges 3000 euro, now the Ramirez FL2 is about 2000 euro (in Italy);
I understand, 1000 euro makes the difference!
indeed the FL2 is a student model, with the Anders blanca, or other good luthier guitar, you can play in a concert.

ciao



gounaro -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 19:08:57)

quote:


I don't know how much Anders charges for his guitars
quote:



Αnders charges 3000 euros and his guitars are exceptional. He loves what he's doing that is the most important thing for all buyers! [;)]



beno -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 19:21:09)

[:D][:D]
Hey, You know my opinion about Salvador Castillo's work!
He's a true gentleman, and the guitar He made me is kickin' ass!!!!



gounaro -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 19:37:38)

As you can see Romb, everybody has his own opinion. It's your choice! [;)]



sig -> RE: Buying a decent flamenco guitar (Nov. 10 2010 21:34:00)

I was in the same postion as you recently. After 8 years playing Flamenco I felt I "earned" a nice handmade instrument. I purchased an Andy Culpepper Blanca back in Sept of this year and I haven't had any regrets. Its a great instrument and I wouldn't have any reservations about the Negra he has for sale; however as rogeliocan mentioned, there are reasons that someone wouldn't but Andy's or Ander's instruments. Perhaps the guitar didn't feel right or the sound wasn't quite what they was looking for. Most Luthiers will let you try it and see what you think.

I have heard great things about Ander's instruments and I can personally attest to Andy's work as well, good guitar for a fair price...
Sig--



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