Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Full Version)

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Markus3 -> Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 13 2010 5:36:13)

this luthier does not make anymore flamenco guitars but the ones that he did make where they any good?



jshelton5040 -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 13 2010 22:38:45)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Markus3

this luthier does not make anymore flamenco guitars but the ones that he did make where they any good?

Are you joking?



Markus3 -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 13 2010 22:45:12)

Yeah maybe i was, so? I mean damn i heard his guitars go for around 20 k, they must be pretty damn good. I am just trying to start a good Luthier conversation that's all :)
This awesome guitarist named Virginia Luque who by the way was taught my Andres Segovia plays with one in this video i think her and the guitar are awesome!
quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

quote:

ORIGINAL: Markus3

this luthier does not make anymore flamenco guitars but the ones that he did make where they any good?

Are you joking?



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 14 2010 1:32:15)

I have a 1982 Arcangel Fernandez blanca. it is my favorite of all the flamencas I have played over the last 40-odd years, including Condes, Gerundinos, and Manuel Reyes. I played a 1955 Barbero when I was just starting out. I wasn't in a position then to judge whether it was as good as or better than the Arcangel.

The Arcangel was made for a collector. When I had Richard Brune appraise it in 2000, he said that after going over it with a magnifying glass, he could find no sign of it ever having been played, or even handled. He also said he had played it for a few hours and, "I have to say, I really like this guitar."

It was obtained via Brian Cohen, the English luthier and dealer and Rik Jonna, then a dealer.

The only other blanca I have at the moment is a '67 Ramirez 1a cedar/cypress. I like it a lot, and I have a sentimental attachment to it, since my wife gave it to me new, as a present.

The Arcangel is one of the few guitars I would say were head and shoulders above the Ramirez. It is louder, and has a tone that is at the same time more brilliant and deeper. To me, it just sings.

RNJ



por medio -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 14 2010 1:58:22)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Markus3

this luthier does not make anymore flamenco guitars but the ones that he did make where they any good?


Was Paco any good at playing guitar? [:D]

I would give my right arm for this guitar Richard.

By the way that girl - who is obviously a classically trained guitarist - doesn't do that guitar justice. She's good, just not flamenco.



Markus3 -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 14 2010 5:01:54)

i am planning on obtaining one someday, when i get better and get done with school as well so i can have enough money to pay for it. I heard many great things about this luthier, and also Ignacio fleta e hijos for classical. Thanks for your reply RNJ
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

I have a 1982 Arcangel Fernandez blanca. it is my favorite of all the flamencas I have played over the last 40-odd years, including Condes, Gerundinos, and Manuel Reyes. I played a 1955 Barbero when I was just starting out. I wasn't in a position then to judge whether it was as good as or better than the Arcangel.

The Arcangel was made for a collector. When I had Richard Brune appraise it in 2000, he said that after going over it with a magnifying glass, he could find no sign of it ever having been played, or even handled. He also said he had played it for a few hours and, "I have to say, I really like this guitar."

It was obtained via Brian Cohen, the English luthier and dealer and Rik Jonna, then a dealer.

The only other blanca I have at the moment is a '67 Ramirez 1a cedar/cypress. I like it a lot, and I have a sentimental attachment to it, since my wife gave it to me new, as a present.

The Arcangel is one of the few guitars I would say were head and shoulders above the Ramirez. It is louder, and has a tone that is at the same time more brilliant and deeper. To me, it just sings.

RNJ



Markus3 -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 14 2010 5:06:44)

Paco Who?........ JK lol.

I believe Virginia Luque was trained as a classical musician, she attended Julliard which i heard only accepts like 7% of applicants or something like that, plus it is expensive. She still sounds good though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: por medio

quote:

ORIGINAL: Markus3

this luthier does not make anymore flamenco guitars but the ones that he did make where they any good?


Was Paco any good at playing guitar? [:D]

I would give my right arm for this guitar Richard.

By the way that girl - who is obviously a classically trained guitarist - doesn't do that guitar justice. She's good, just not flamenco.



jshelton5040 -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 14 2010 15:07:11)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Markus3

i am planning on obtaining one someday, when i get better and get done with school as well so i can have enough money to pay for it. I heard many great things about this luthier, and also Ignacio fleta e hijos for classical.


If you're willing to spend the money I'm sure you will able to find one. Whether it's as good as the one Richard mentions is another question.

I've played a few of them over the years and none of them impressed me. The last one was in Philadelphia. It was completely worn out and had no voice at all. I don't remember the year it was made. Like all the famous makers A. Fernandez made some fantastic guitars (just look at the people who played them) and some that were not so fantastic. The name on the label doesn't guarantee a good instrument. Same goes for Fleta, some players love them and some hate them. Put me in the "love them" catagory.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 14 2010 15:15:13)



The basses on this one sound completely worn out



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 14 2010 15:21:29)

I bought my first guitar in Paracho when I was 19. I knew nothing at all about guitars, except that Paracho had a reputation for good economical instruments.

I "played" several at various shops, to the very slight extent I was able to play then. I ended up at the shop of Ramon Zalapa, who also sold paint and office furniture. I picked a guitar out of the ten or so he had available, for 300 pesos, then equal to $24. It was spruce/mahogany with a gigantic scale length. It was decently made, the neck was straight and it was loud.

Being a 19-year old twit, I felt I had to make some comment after paying for the guitar. I told Zalapa what a fine instrument it was. He pushed his straw hat back on his head. A big smile creased his Indian face, showing a gold tooth.

"Pues, todos no salen igual [Well, they don't all turn out the same]," he observed.

When I first spoke to Bruce Banister about the '73 Romanillos I ended up buying, I told him this story. He laughed long and loud.

RNJ



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 14 2010 15:40:03)

quote:

The basses on this one sound completely worn out


Could be. Or it could be the player or the strings or the recording...I tend to pick the player in this case.

My Arcangel seems dull to many classical players. They often complain of a lack of sustain. They look surprised when I play it. It requires a firm flamenco right hand. Then it growls and sings--if I'm doing my part.

Other flamenco players like the Arcangel as well, but I'm pretty sure my friend with the '73 Reyes would still prefer his guitar. For me that particular Reyes is too loose, and the setup buzzes too much.

Different strokes...

RNJ



Markus3 -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 14 2010 19:18:54)

Oh really, same here one of my first guitars was a paracho and i got it at a mall in guadalahara for 100 pesos, man i low balled the crap out of that guy. It sounded way better than it looked and my guitar professor complimented me on it and i apparently inspired one of my friends to go to mexico and get one, i thought he was nuts. The only problem with it was that the tuning pegs wore out and broke down and i ended up buying new tuners for it. other than that it sounds awesome. if you want i can take a picture of it to show you what i am talking about.



Markus3 -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 14 2010 19:27:03)

I agree with you shelton, just because it cost 20 k it doesn't mean that it is going sound and play perfect. I think every musician has a certain sound they want to get out of an instrument and to get it one has to search high and low and can spend as much as 100 dollars to 20000 K for their particular sound.



TANúñez -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 15 2010 21:11:29)

quote:

I would give my right arm for this guitar Richard.


What would be the point then? [8D] Give up a foot instead.



Markus3 -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Oct. 16 2010 7:42:08)

With you on that one. Wether it was made by a machine or a man, when wood is glued together to make a guitar the result may be a good or bad sounding instrument. For example my paracho guitar I got for 100 pesos or like 11 bucks. Got it for cheap and looks cheap but sounds beautiful.



mark74 -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Jan. 26 2011 7:21:35)

She plays some of the best Chopin Ive ever heard, but still I agree the two are completely different animals



Ricardo -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Jan. 27 2011 1:07:37)

There is all kinds of hype for all kinds of guitars. In the end, Conde was always the best and still is as far as flamenco goes.



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Jan. 27 2011 1:58:01)

quote:

In the end, Conde was always the best and still is as far as flamenco goes.


There are great Condes and not so great Condes. A 1973 Conde media luna that belongs to a friend is probably my number 2 favorite for flamenco, but I like the Arcangel better. You might not. It's probably moot, since Arcangel has just about stopped making guitars, and all that he does make have long been contracted to a Japanese dealer.

I first visited the Conde shop at Gravina 7 sometime in the 1970s. I asked for one of their best instruments. I was handed a terribly botched clunker. The neck was crooked, not just bent, the fingerboard was rough, the frets were uneven, it was dead as a doornail...and the price quoted was astronomical.

I played a couple of soleares falsetas and handed the guitar back to the young man behind the counter without comment.

Faustino was still alive, and was in the front of the shop. He motioned to the young man, who reappeared with a very nice media luna. I played for 20-30 minutes--a few different palos--nothing to write home about, but in the 1970s I thought it was rare to hear a gringo play in compas. Afterward I handed the guitar back, bought some strings and started to leave. Faustino introduced himself and invited me to return. On subsequent visits I was treated with honesty and courtesy.

RNJ



RTC -> RE: Arcangel Fernandez flamenco's (Jan. 27 2011 2:57:37)

Richard:
I enjoyed your stories.
Post some more.
Regards,
RTC
McKinney, TX



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