####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Full Version)

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stevefox -> ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 16 2005 8:41:12)


the idea is from mr. graf-martinez, a 12 count metronome for flamenco compas, this mothod is really brilliant invention.so i programed a small software to simulate this metronome (the graf-martinez one is selling at euro65.... :-\).
i am not a programmer so, this software spend me one whole month to build, from learning the programe language to interface designing, really took me great efforts. after so many frustrations finally it was finished 30 minutes ago, still hot : )
this is a green software, no need to install, just click and run. if you think it is helpful plz feel free to drop me a reply and let me know what you think. i will further improve the functions. thanks and ole!!!

The link below is the newly modified version with a much better timing feel, enjoy!
FILE DOWNLOAD :
12CountMet.zip

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flyeogh -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 16 2005 9:52:56)

A brilliant effort and it has great potential for learning. I am one year into playing Flamenco guitar (never played any guitar before) and such a tool could really help.

I think the graphics are not quite in sync with the sound but I will experiment some more.

I am into IT (35 years) and from an IT viewpoint this is excellent. It works, its design is simple, it has practical application, and unlike Microsoft software it does not contain several thousand functions that no one will ever use.

I have a flamenco website if you would like a further distribution point. You can email me at fl@e2systems.co.uk. I look forward to any further developments.[:)]

Nigel



nhills -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 16 2005 15:21:36)

Very nice!

How about making the source code available? [:D]

Cheers,
Norman



duende -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 16 2005 15:34:18)

works ok i think. Post it at ToddK´s foro.
You might wanna ask first.

Henrik



Ron.M -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 16 2005 20:49:51)

Hi Steve,
An excellently good layout!
I think I've got a problem with my computer at the moment 'cos the time intervals are varying all over the place when I try to run it.
Real Time programs are hard to do!
I had to learn this new "Object Oriented" software before I could write the "Flamenco Master" program.
I'm not a software guy, but a hardware, nuts and bolts analogue guy myself! LOL
But it was a challenge!
What language are you using?
I found that using the Virtual Basic inbuilt timers were totally inaccurate.
The only way I could find was by dividing down the main computer clock.
Then the other headache was trying to get the .wav files to start and end in time.

Needless to say, I'm through with programming now!

(I still charge the buggers $20 for it to buy strings though! LOL!)

cheers

Ron

www.guitartechnique.com



Thomas Whiteley -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 16 2005 21:49:07)

My background is Electronics Engineering and now Programing. You have done an excellent job and have a very clean and useful layout. There is a problem with start and stop (attack and decay) times as the faster you set the tempo the greater the error. The good news is that the graphics follow the beat to perfection.

1. What language are you using?
2. What are you using to derive the clock pulse?

You might send a copy of your code and the basic concept you are using for review. There are a few of us who are programmers and may be able to give a few suggestions.

I really think you have a good idea that is useful. One of the great pains about software is that the “client” always thinks of new things for you to create after they see the first version operating. This is referred to “scope creep”. “Gee, can your program turn on my coffee pot and play the stereo when I want it too”? [:D]



Skai -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 17 2005 3:54:34)

Hi Steven,

Guess you're the one from S'pore whom I used to correspond over email?
Enjoying your purchases over the net I see? [;)]
Great program btw but one thing though, how come the 12, 3, 6, 8, 10 counts are the ones kept silent in bulerias? Found it abit weird to follow. Nevertheless, it's useful for someone like me who can't buy any programs over the net as I've no credit card.

Nice seeing you around here,
Skai [8D]



stevefox -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 17 2005 5:18:49)

hi guys thanks for the opinions, your reviews are of great encouragement to me.
ok, let me clear some of the questions first-

software and source code
actually i was using FLASH to build the whole scene and graphics, and all the timing part are using Action Script 2.0. learning AS2.0 is far more easier than learning Visual C(i think ...), later i will make the source code available

the timing problem
there is one lacking point of the AS2.0 - the minimum time step is not exactly fixed, AS2.0 is embeded in the FLASH so, it is associated with the minimum time frame of the flash movie. i set the movie time frame to be 120f/s, which means minimum time step is around 8ms. so the biggest time error should be 4ms. if speed is 280bpm, then there will be around 2% mistake. but actually when the PC is busy, the time frame rate will drop and the timing error some times up to 10% probably, this is quite noticeable. so, the faster tempo, the more timing error. i tested at speed below 180 it should be working fine.
and another thing i still haven't figure out is that the first beat always takes longer time. i guess it take time to load the scripts ....maybe

the sound
the sound formats are using both windows wave and mp3. so if pc can't decode the mp3(maybe) the sound will be missing. if i try using totally wave format then it should be better(but larger size). i am still considering making the volume adjustable and more sound effect to choose from.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hi ron,
thank you for the nice comments, i have totally no idea about VB(plus the software is expensive and huge), anyhow perhaps VB should be more accurate in time dividing? the wave file i use windows recorder to record and edit, tried countless times then finally got a better timing. the wave is only 18ms~30ms long( the timing problem should be originated from here!!!!), so they are short enough for one beat.


hi cheston,
how are you lately? sorry long time haven't contact you, last month i was just back from phuket, i was so darn lucky man. so how's everything going? i listened all your recordings from the website, very good, you are really talented : )



steven

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stevefox -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 17 2005 5:31:57)

this small program is totally free, you can freely distribute/develope/modify, it is made for us to share :)



stevefox -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 17 2005 7:18:44)

The source code is Action Script 2.0 embeded in the Flash. source file has '.fla' extention which can be opened by Flash MX. you may want to adopt it into other programme language, here is the idea,
the basic flow is -
1. obtain the parameters needed (compas type and speed) from the user interface. when the compas is selected, rotate the accent circle according to the rythm pattern.
2. when play started, calculate the speed and change it into time step 'ts'
3. rotate the pointer by 30 degree every ts. this interval is performed by
setInterval(function(),time)
4. play sound each time when the pointer is rotated, and choose which sound to play according to the selected compas pattern.

just that simple!

the most tricky part is the rythm pattern. it is very difficult to implement a logical way to tell the pc when to play strong beat and when to play weak beat, it is possible by using complicated 'if' combinations, but the judgements will slow down the speed which is not within control. so i use 'pattern numbers' -
e.g. for bulerias, the compas is
O-X-X-O-X-X-O-X-O-X-O-X,
then if '1' stands for strong beat and '0' for weak beat, we get a 12 bit binary number
100100101010,
so, each time we judge the beat by the 1 & 0, the souce code is -

TYPE = 0b10101001001 /*pattern reversed
N = (TYPE >> B) && 1 /*B is the beat count, right shift the binary code by B bits and use logic 'AND 000000000001' to get the last digit
if (N == 1) { playsound(strongbeat.wav) }
else { playsound(weakbeat.wav) }

that is how the core part is simply implemented.
so at the interface, i used a select box to get the information of desired compas,
Bulerias = 1353 /* decimal number of 010101001001
Soleares = 2724 /* decimal number of 101010100100
Siguiriyas = 1173 /*decimal number of 010010010101
......

once the value is selected, the back ground of the 12 count numbers will rotate by certain degrees to mark out the accent beat
if(TYPE == 1353) { background._rotation = 0 } /*default value
else if (TYPE == 2724) { background._rotation = -30 } /*for soleares & the like
else if (TYPE == 1173) { background._rotation = 120 } /*for siguiriyas


these are the most part of the source code, others are interface design, just drag
and drop.
i wish someone could adopt this program into VB or VC etc, which should have a
more accurate timing structure.

any questions and discussion plz feel free to voice out, thank you !:)



Jamey -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 17 2005 16:55:52)

Steve, I am a Flash developer. If you drop your movie's base frame rate, despite it seeming counter intuitive, your time delay/decay problem should decrease. The higher you set the framerate in Flash, the more you're asking it to do "on the fly". It's akin to having a digitial video clip at 30 frames per second or higher. Some machines will simply bottleneck. If you hit ctrl-F while it's running (this is a display toggle which will set it to full screen), you'll likely get an exaggerated example of what I'm talking about since the graphics display will take precedence and will bog down due to calculating bitmap and vector scaling at runtime "on the fly". Flash can be clunky. I think Gerhard used Macromedia Director for his metronome but it suffers many of the same ills that Flash does (I.E. Director does, not Gerhard's metronome).

I usually set my Flash projects to no higher than 20 fps.

You can probably get away with 30 fps as well, but when you bump it to 120, you aren't getting anywhere near 120fps performance and are actually causing the playback engine to slow down. It then starts to pile up a backlog of scripts and "behaviors" that it's trying to run in the order than they are called. Eventually it will really slow down unless you additionally code in some memory purging functions.


You should probably also employ a discreet preload sequence to buffer the sound so that the first beat doesn't take longer. Flash buffer's internally so you have to work around it a bit when creating a desktop app. This is what's happening initially, your sound is being buffered the first time.



stevefox -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 18 2005 11:49:54)

Thank you Jamey, i have modified the souce code and now there should be no problem!!

thanks to everyone here, gracias~



Jamey -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 18 2005 23:24:23)

Glad to help. There's a few Mac users here. I develop on the Mac platform and Flash MX Professional lets me create runtimes for both Mac and Windows. I can't remember if Flash on Windows allows for creating "projectors" for Macs from the Windows version of Flash. If it doesn't, let me know. I can create a Mac projector for you if needed (Mac OS X).



Cisco -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 20 2005 14:10:58)

Hello Steve,

cheers to your free software. But if you mentioned that the idea is from Graf-Martinez you should be fair and say that the price of his metronome is 29 - not 65 EUR.

I'm a user of Graf-Martinez metronome and must add that his metronome comes with a further modul the score player



and and was wondering that he has now implemented this software in his DVD





In Vol II you'll see all (excellent): the running clock, foot, tabs and claps !!



One question Steve: Why are the accents i.e. in the Algrias on 2 - 5 - 7 - 9 -11 ??? Look here to understand the flamenco clock
Flamenco guitar (Compas)

Roberto

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stevefox -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 22 2005 16:04:45)

hi everyone, i have just been back from my holidays. many thanks to Jamey, it is really embarassed to present my ameture software before real programmers. thanks a lot for your help buddy, here is the link to the source code -
http://sg.geocities.com/stevefox_sg/zipfile.zip
i was considering adding more functions and implementing the 4/4 timing mode to metronome but i was rather busy flying around these days, so here is the source code with every element inside, if you would like to make modifications that would be my greatest pleasure. :)


hi Roberto, thanks a lot for wasting time on this freeware, yes absolutely, it is imperfect, this is why i share it to get precious help from our fellow guitarists.
i have been learning flamenco guitar for 6 years and thank you for questioning me for the alegrias compas, i dont think i will explain that.
and, very unfortunately, i have had the dvds for quite a long time.


steven




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Skai -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 24 2005 4:43:49)

Roberto, why look into what numbers the accents 'should' be on? If you notice, the accents are still xxXxxXxXxXxX and that's all that matters. Even flamencos Spain almost always learn the rhythm by heart, and not in any numerical order. The clock is simplay a memory tool and a chart that relates the various 12 beat forms.

Hope this is right,
Skai [8D]



Guest -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 29 2005 18:10:52)

I found 2 flamenco metronomes online before for free, but they were lost in a comp' crash. Cannot find the links anymore, but found this page. Cannot figure out how to download this! The only link I found was at the bottom of this page"

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=14691&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

But it doesn't work!! Can someone help??

Randy
mail@cmiys.com



Guest -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Jan. 29 2005 18:18:11)

never mind....figured out the link! I was looking for more of an http-type link...

Randy



Guest -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Feb. 23 2005 15:34:32)

a real thanks for the metronome.....has really improved my compas.



Guest -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Feb. 8 2006 14:19:44)

Does anyone know why the Gerhard-Graf Metronome software isn't available to download anymore?



Doitsujin -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Feb. 9 2006 14:17:41)

Schnick-schnack...



La Contratiempo -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Feb. 12 2006 16:13:45)

quote:

Mac

I would love a mac version OSX. So please notify me, when there is one.



Exitao -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Mar. 16 2006 6:13:40)

The multimedia cd for Graf-Martinez' Gypsy Guitar also has a a compas app included. It seems to use Shockwave. I think the free download one has been replaced by a more profitable version. But if anyone could up the free version (if it was freeware), it would be nice to compare...


But I think the potential for compas app to meet a community's needs is a splendid idea. I've subscribed to this thread so that I can keep an eye on new info and versions.

I tried finding a site that might have been hosting the old G-M metronome, but no luck.

What I did find was:
http://herso.freeservers.com/met.html
It even links to some odd looking app called 'Flamenco Master' [;)]
I haven't browsed the rest of the site yet, but t seems to have other Flamenco info.

There was a link to a freeware metronome which should be able to do any compas:
http://www.pinkandaint.com/weirdmet.shtml
The source code is available too if one of our programmers wants to take a look at it (just read his FAQ)...



Francisco -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Mar. 16 2006 6:27:34)

quote:

The multimedia cd for Graf-Martinez' Gypsy Guitar also has a a compas app included.

Are you sure? I'm going to have to go and check out the cd-Rom. I thought all that was included was a program that shows the music as it's being played. There are also some live performances on the CD-ROM, but i didn't notice any flamenco clock.



Exitao -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Mar. 16 2006 6:31:51)

Look in the folder called 'goodies' there's an executable called 'compas.exe'

You can use it off the disk, but only if you drag the whole goodies folder to your HD.



Patrick -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Mar. 16 2006 17:10:50)

quote:

It even links to some odd looking app called 'Flamenco Master'


My friend, that "odd looking app" as you say, just happens to be the best computer based metronome available. It works flawlessly, can be programmed and sounds good to boot. Besides it only cost a few bucks. If you want something that looks pretty, look elsewhere. If you want something that works...well, just buy it.



Francisco -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Mar. 16 2006 17:58:55)

Exitao:
I found the file you are referring to. It appears to be only a demo version of G-M's metronome. It only cycles through twice, then asks if you want to register for the full version.

Patrick:
I agree, Flamenco Master is an excellent metronome. I purchased it about 1-2 weeks ago, and it's been a real eye opener. I thought I was more in compas than I really was, the metronome doesn't lie![;)]
I've taken to heart some of the advice here to practice with a metronome, and would have to say, considering the alternatives, flamenco master is the best I have come across.



Escribano -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Mar. 16 2006 17:59:14)

quote:

My friend, that "odd looking app" as you say, just happens to be the best computer based metronome available.


Besides, our own Ron M. created it. Nice job.



gshaviv -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Mar. 16 2006 23:53:32)

The source code link does not work anymore, did you remove it?

What you did is great, I would love to access the source code and create a Mac version. As an open source project we can improve it together quite a bit, I'm sure.



Exitao -> RE: ####A FREE 12 Count flamenco Metronome#### (Mar. 17 2006 1:34:31)

quote:

My friend, that "odd looking app" as you say, just happens to be the best computer based metronome available. It works flawlessly, can be programmed and sounds good to boot. Besides it only cost a few bucks. If you want something that looks pretty, look elsewhere. If you want something that works...well, just buy it.



Yes, I knew it was from one of the forum members. Hence the winky emoticon. I wondered if Ron knew it was in that guy's links...



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