Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Full Version)

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Ron.M -> Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 9 2005 20:46:27)

For about the last three weeks now the Ondajerez programme "A Compás" has been featuring Niño Jero as the main accompanist.
Man, the guy is baldy, with a big Santa Claus beard...
But, By God, can the man play!
He always plays the same falsetas over and over again, regardless of whom he is accompanying.
But is the guy Flamenco?
Well, is the Pope Catholic?
This guy's guitar is so out of tune, but his thumb really hits it out.
You gotta see/hear this guy!
No wonder that along with Diego Amaya he is one of the preferred guitarristas of "El Capullo".
The man doesn't just play Flamenco, he practically tastes it!
What a personality!!

cheers

Ron




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 9 2005 23:49:44)

I saw him in Moguer, near Huelva. He is a fun performer, and sort of exudes compas and complete rhythmic security. I think watching him, you get a sense of what you were talking about Ron, not just the 3 and 10, but the 1 2 3 4 5 etc and all the beats in between.




Escribano -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 10 2005 8:18:26)

quote:

You gotta see/hear this guy!


Couldn't agree more. I caught him with Capullo at the Buleria last year, went down a storm. A great example of the Jerezano thumb I bang on about. He is rock and roll.




Ron.M -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 10 2005 8:52:13)

What gets me about him is that the guitar is only roughly in tune, the microphone is stuck right in front of the soundhole, he doesn't hit notes cleanly, his falsetas are basic to say the least and his playing would be considered crude by most guitarists standards but everything he plays sounds muy Flamenco and spot on.
I was just ending my practise session, so I was sitting with the guitar and everything I played sounded prissy and crap in comparison, even just a single chord. [:D]

cheers

Ron




Escribano -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 10 2005 9:53:23)

quote:

I was just ending my practise session, so I was sitting with the guitar and everything I played sounded prissy and crap in comparison, even just a single chord.


It is because we play alone that we hear every flaw and therefore fine-tune our approach. In a group (as in any group), one cannot hear these "flaws", the dynamics of the group take over and you have flamenco, yes?




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 10 2005 14:56:33)

My way of looking at it is flamenco and guitar are actually two seperate things, only tangentially linked. When we talk about guitar, we mean getting aroudn the fingerboard, being able to play chords and notes with precision and fluidity, rhythm, harmony, melody, dynamics.... but when we talk about flamenco, we are really talking about being able to speak a "language". The flamenco guitar is a percussion instrument, and although conga players tune their drum heads no one really cares if it's off a couple semitones. In flamenco, people basically want a cajon with a neck. There are bad guitarists who are good flamencos, in my opinion.

And... Chocolate is a bad singer, but a good flamenco! My voice teacher couldn't stop himself from laughing when he listened to the Gipsy King singer... I cant imagine what he would have said if he had heard Agujetas!




Mark2 -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 10 2005 16:09:47)

I don't think I'd call them bad guitarists. They are using the guitar to perform a function which is essential to the situation, and doing it well. It's just like a simple rock thing-maybe only three chords are required, but if the guy does them just right and with the right sound, then he's a good guitarist. Several years ago, I took my then 13 year old to a blink 182 concert. The guy didn't play much, but everything he played was perfect for the gig. His sound was great. Between songs he made a joke about being a bad guitarist, and to illustrate he hit a bent note intentionally slighlty out of tune. Took a bit of finesse to do the "joke" just right. About your vocal teacher, I don't know if I'd stay with that fellow. Those guys in the GK's can sing there asses off. If he can't hear that.........but then I think Chocolate is a great singer!




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 10 2005 16:23:34)

I'm not with the voice teacher anymore. He's too "opera." What he said about the GK guy is that he has a wonderful voice and feeling, but that he's "ruining his voice" by the way he's singing. Obviously he had no experience with flamenco. There are some things that are sort of like musical "junk food"-- they sound good, but they are bad for your mechanism. Some people can get away with it for years, like Sr. Chocolate, some people will lose their voice. Nicolas, the Gk lead singer, certainly can't do what he used to....

My teacher was in his seventies, so I didn't really expect him to be open to new ways. I learned what I could, and moved on...




eslastra -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 10 2005 19:15:32)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

the dynamics of the group take over and you have flamenco, yes?


I've found this to be true not just in flamenco, but in all other musical groups I've played in. It's very difficult to fully emulate the full 'rock', 'r&b', 'jazz', or 'flamenco' experience totally alone. Not to say it couldn't be done, there are the few that can pull it off. The fun of it all is when artists are able to play off of each other's energies to create the magic of the moment. And that's what gets everybody into it. JMHO [:)]




nhills -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 10 2005 20:27:14)

Diego del Gastor wasn't much for technique either!

Norman




Ron.M -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 10 2005 21:22:33)

quote:

It's very difficult to fully emulate the full 'rock', 'r&b', 'jazz', or 'flamenco' experience totally alone


I appreciate what you are saying there Eddie, but what I was talking about was just Niño Jero playing with a singer.
No others involved, so when he played a falseta, he was just on his own.
That's why I said that even stroking a single chord it was charged with "flamenco".
When I played the same chord it was not the same.
Not even close.
Why?

I have a feeling that even the amazing Vincente Amigo feels a bit of discomfort hearing those sort of players in the same way that maybe Eric Clapton feels when hearing some of those great Delta Blues players with their roughly tuned guitars giving it heavy thumb with a little bit of tasty fingerwork compared to his own practised and refined stuff.
It's not a sound that's easily copied, although seems easy enough.

Remember perhaps Niño Jero plays that way because he likes the sound and not because he's not a good enough player to play lightning picado.
And when you play that simply for so long, then after decades you start to become a master of the "sounds inbetween the sounds" that makes his style and tone so difficult to imitate?

cheers

Ron




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 10 2005 21:30:36)

Ron,
that's the point of it all, I think.... I mean, technique and fluency is great, but there is another thing, and that is your idiomatic knowledge and experience and your Voice. It doesn't matter how many scales or la la la la la las I sing, I'll never sound like Andrea Bocceli or Camaron or Nicolas Reyes :). My voice is my own.

But...I better watch out for Eddie or Martin here... Eric Clapton is British! He's not from the Delta! At least Vicente is from Andalucia... :)




Guest -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 10 2005 21:42:57)

Hola

If you have the great BBC documentary an Andalucian Journey, the final juerga, in Cadiz, features a much younger Niño Jero, with Jose Herrera on 2nd guitar. He was much more normal then.[;)]

Sean




eslastra -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 11 2005 0:28:22)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

It's very difficult to fully emulate the full 'rock', 'r&b', 'jazz', or 'flamenco' experience totally alone


I appreciate what you are saying there Eddie, but what I was talking about was just Niño Jero playing with a singer.
No others involved, so when he played a falseta, he was just on his own.
That's why I said that even stroking a single chord it was charged with "flamenco".
When I played the same chord it was not the same.
Not even close.
Why?

I have a feeling that even the amazing Vincente Amigo feels a bit of discomfort hearing those sort of players in the same way that maybe Eric Clapton feels when hearing some of those great Delta Blues players with their roughly tuned guitars giving it heavy thumb with a little bit of tasty fingerwork compared to his own practised and refined stuff.
It's not a sound that's easily copied, although seems easy enough.

Remember perhaps Niño Jero plays that way because he likes the sound and not because he's not a good enough player to play lightning picado.
And when you play that simply for so long, then after decades you start to become a master of the "sounds inbetween the sounds" that makes his style and tone so difficult to imitate?

cheers

Ron


Ron,

Just trying to share my 2 cents worth FWIW [;)] I had to reread the entire thread to make sure I didn't misunderstand it. Similar to what you were saying, I was just trying to say too that there is a certain 'magic' I've observed that occurs when certain artists 'connect' that transcends technical perfection and musical style. It's that type of impact you can be hit with and be willing to 'forgive' the imperfections in exchange for 'fulfillment'. I'm one that is more impressed with this aspect of a performance rather than technical capabilities. If I want to listen to technical perfection, I put on a CD recording. I think that is a different type of listening pleasure.

In the example of Nino Jero, I don't see him or any cante accompanist as being totally on his own when playing a falseta, because he's drawn in a certain feeling from accompanying the singer and in response, his falseta is enhanced by this feeling. A good singer can really inspire and reach parts of the soul that an instrument can't. So even though it's the same old falseta he's played for years, just at this moment in time, there will be something a little different about it. As you say, it's been 'charged'. And what I was trying to say was that is something that can't be easily duplicated because it belonged to them at that moment. I think we understood the same thing, but from different angles? Forgive me for rambling [:(]




eslastra -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 11 2005 0:39:10)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

But...I better watch out for Eddie or Martin here... Eric Clapton is British! He's not from the Delta! At least Vicente is from Andalucia... :)


Huh?? I'm not sure how to respond to this. Did I say something offensive in the past? If I did, please forgive me as I'm totally unaware. Somtimes posting on the forums makes me nervous because I never know whether what I'm saying is being understood the way I intended it, or if I'm just talking nonsense. [:@] Maybe it's safer for me to go back into lurking mode [:o]




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 11 2005 3:00:40)

Eddie, don't apologize, let me apologize! I had a discussion with someone, I couldn't remember if it was you or Mark (don't ask me why those two names came up), about Eric Clapton. I was just making a little joke about it.... So, no you certainly didn't say anything wrong--your contribution here is very valuable and appreciated!




eslastra -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 11 2005 5:05:25)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

Eddie, don't apologize, let me apologize! I had a discussion with someone, I couldn't remember if it was you or Mark (don't ask me why those two names came up), about Eric Clapton. I was just making a little joke about it.... So, no you certainly didn't say anything wrong--your contribution here is very valuable and appreciated!


Miguel,
Whew, that makes me feel better, thanks [:D] I wasn't sure if there was some humor there that I was supposed to catch but missed (I've been known to do that [:(]), or if there was something else between the lines, if you know what I mean. Anyway, no offense taken. I was just concerned that I inadvertently slammed someone or something they said, and if I did, I certainly wanted to clear it up. [8|]




Escribano -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 11 2005 9:23:54)

quote:

was just trying to say too that there is a certain 'magic' I've observed that occurs when certain artists 'connect' that transcends technical perfection and musical style


I agree with you. Very few famous bands were technically perfect or in any way technocrats - they came together, moved as one for a while and then broke apart.

It is an interesting difference that flamencos are not in bands, as such, but are rather known as individuals (cante) or duos (cante and guitar).

I suspect the difference is that flamenco is a repetoire that is always there and musicians can pull it out of the air when they come together, whomever they are. When it really works, you have duende.




Ron.M -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 11 2005 10:16:59)

Yeah, I agree with you and Eddie about that "group" feeling.
I liked Mike's comment about Flamencos "just wanting a cajon with a neck" LOL!
I've often thought this myself.
I have a feeling that the only real fans of true solo Flamenco guitar are other guitarists.
I bet if you had to stop and ask everybody coming out of a solo recital, be it Classical or Flamenco, you'd find that a lot of them either play or have played some kind of guitar style at one point in their lives.
I suppose we're a bit like trainspotters in that respect LOL!
(I'll get my anorak)

cheers

Ron




Ricardo -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 12 2005 6:29:34)

quote:

I have a feeling that even the amazing Vincente Amigo feels a bit of discomfort hearing those sort of players...


As a matter of fact Ron, I have a nice video bootleg of Camaron being accompanied Por Solea and Bulerias, by a young mullet-haired Vicente, and bearded Mr. Jero. Anyone else seen this and care to comment? Vicente seemed to be "acting" like the lead guitar, but Jero blew him away w/ his famous one-note-on-two-strings thumb work. As far as accompanying the Shrimp, well, I don't want to say more than it seemed Tomatito was missed, at least a little bit. I do like to hear a singer accompanied by different players though, it is very helpful to see how different accompanists handle it differently.

ricardo




eslastra -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 12 2005 23:01:13)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

I do like to hear a singer accompanied by different players though, it is very helpful to see how different accompanists handle it differently.

ricardo


This also interests me with different singers. One example, when comparing the Paco and Camaron to the Tomatito and Camaron, it seems to me Camaron's a little more at ease with Tomatito. In some ways, I think they connected better as a duo. In the few clips I've seen, Tomatito played simpler falsetas. I'd like to see more clips to see if this was his usual way of accompanying Camaron.




eslastra -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 12 2005 23:04:38)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

I have a feeling that the only real fans of true solo Flamenco guitar are other guitarists.



I'd agree totally with that, in fact whenever PdL or some other monster comes to town to play, it's becomes a class reunion of all the local guitarists [:D]




Ricardo -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Jan. 12 2005 23:31:47)

Hi Eddie,
IMO, the plain simple truth is that there are few accompanists as good as Tomatito, especially for rhythmic forms bulerias/tangos/solea, etc. Falsetas have little to do w/ it. It is more the way he plays chords and accents, helping the singer, letting him ride the waves comfortably. Paco does not close up phrases the same as Tomate. Moraito, Juan Habichuela, P. Cepero, are also good at this. Any guitarist can be good when it is rehearsed, but when there is improvisation, the singer needs someone to give them what they need to feel comfortable. Not that Paco and Vicente are not good, just that those other guys can really make the singer feel comfortable. Listen to Zambo sing w/ Moraito, then listen to how Tomatito plays for him. Both good, but different styles.

Ricardo




Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 21 2006 0:55:13)

[Deleted by Admins]




JBASHORUN -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Dec. 21 2006 21:14:40)

If anyone knows of any CDs or DVDs featuring Nino jero, please let me know... I've tried the usual retailers with no success.

Cheers,

Jb




duende121 -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Dec. 24 2006 9:40:33)

Hi
I don t know the concert you are speaking of, but I personaly had some lessons in Jerez with Jero and he is a great player. I hope you are speaking of antonio Jero? Not his son? Or his brother? Jero plays on a pedagogical danse dvd with Maria del Mar Moreno and on this cd:
Rubichi
Luna de Calabozo
Let me know if we speak of the same guy.
Saludos




Phil -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Dec. 24 2006 10:12:18)

quote:

I hope you are speaking of antonio Jero?


Antonio Jero is El Niño Jero's younger brother. El Niño Jero's name is Pedro Carrasco AKA Periquín.

Phil




sonikete -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Dec. 24 2006 10:21:58)

Productos en los que ha colaborado Niño Jero:
http://www.esflamenco.com/bio/es10131.html

Puro y Jondo
Pansequito y Santiago Donday
http://www.esflamenco.com/product/es87917386.html

I have a VHS from tv where Niño Jero and Vicente together with Camarón i dont know if that is available on DVD as well..




Conrad -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Dec. 24 2006 17:45:44)



This is the one you mean, no?

peace,

Con




JBASHORUN -> RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (Dec. 24 2006 19:37:52)

Gracias Sonikete... thats what I was looking for. Although I was surprised that Nino Jero doesn't have "his own" album out yet. But its no problem, as there seem to be quite a few featuring him.

jb




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