Charging for gigs (Full Version)

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akatune -> Charging for gigs (Jul. 26 2010 2:33:40)

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Ramon Amira -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 26 2010 12:57:42)

quote:

I figure I'd charge about 1/3 of what a pro would charge.


If you're being paid to play, then you ARE a professional. You should charge accordingly. As for the business card, I think you should put your stage name and phone number, a line drawing of a guitar is nice – I have one on my cards – and maybe something like "Flamenco Guitarist," if that's what you're playing.



Chiste de Gales -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 26 2010 14:29:40)

You might want to include on your card the url to a youtube account featuring your playing. If you already have one with a mish mash of different stuff, you should make a new one for the sole purpose of promoting your performances.

As far as choosing your fee, shop around the area and see what everyone else is charging.

You might could PM Jason McGuire about it. Fully describe your level of playing and he may have a good suggestion for what to charge. He lives in SF.



RTC -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 27 2010 1:27:01)

I agree with PC, looks like you will be turning pro. I think your card should read "Guitarrista Flamenco"

Hope you get some clients.

Keep us posted.



at_leo_87 -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 27 2010 1:48:28)

dont forget your email address! good luck!



akatune -> [Deleted] (Jul. 27 2010 2:44:30)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 11 2013 17:42:23



Chiste de Gales -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 27 2010 4:04:37)

quote:

ORIGINAL: akatune

Do you really think that's enough to call myself a professional?




Yes! If you can get a gig and be a good ambassador for flamenco, then you have my blessing! ;)



gerundino63 -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 27 2010 7:39:48)

A big step to print a card!
Congratulated!

If you ask money for what you do, you are a pro.
Act like one, if you want to be taken serious.
Ask enough money otherwice you play for a drink and a meal on every occasion.
Do not ask too much, that makes you unemployed[:D]

Around 130-170 euro ( 130 for the midweek, 170 for the weekend) an hour.

An hour is two sessions of 25 min. and a brake for 10 min.

This way you can play for a long time and you can use the thirth hour some of stuff you did in the first hour.

For weddings and companys you can ask more, companys are willing mostly to pay around 350 euo so you can ask how long they need you,and make the price on 350 euro
( If you ask 750 euro or so the mostly aspect a band or a dancer too)

Weddings can be around 600, 750, for a few hours.

Ask if possible the money in front of your gig, at the end of the evening you do not have to chase a drunken groome or mother in law for money[:D]

Also say in front you play in sessions, than you have no problem with that.

The prices include no tax.

Ofcourse this is just a average price setting.
You can adapt the price, for instance if you like the gig, or the gig is good for your name or they are willing to take you a few times more in the future....

Good luck and have fun!



akatune -> [Deleted] (Jul. 27 2010 21:48:10)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 11 2013 17:42:16



veet -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 28 2010 19:02:34)

There are wedding websites like gigmasters.com that will clue you to what folks are charging.

Ask a fair price, but do not undercharge, it's anti-competitive.
Lowballing your price will get you a bad reputation among your peers.



beno -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 28 2010 20:08:08)

wow!
Those prices seems great, I wish I could charge that much in hungary... [&:]
Now I see the HUGE difference between countries...[:(]



akatune -> [Deleted] (Jul. 28 2010 23:10:03)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 11 2013 17:42:07



Ramon Amira -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 29 2010 2:45:56)

First of all, the word "amateur" has come to have derogatory connotations, but originally it simply meant someone who undertakes some particular art or activity for the love of it – from the Latin root "amare – to love." There have been, and are, amateurs in many fields who are just as good or better than many professionals in the same field, and amateurs become professionals just as often as they remain amateurs. Sometimes an amateur remains one because he or she is not good enough to turn professional, but sometimes they remain amateurs for the original meaning of the word.

Have confidence in yourself. If people who have heard you play ask you to play at their events, and are willing to pay you for it, then by definition 1) you are good enough to command a fee, and 2) you are a professional.



at_leo_87 -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 29 2010 3:52:34)

quote:

I'll take that into consideration. You still think so if it is understood that they are hiring an amateur?


akatune, i think i know what you're going through. for some strange reason, it's really hard to accept money in the beginning. but too bad, get used to it. you'll be glad you did.[:D]

just show up, be friendly, be enthusiastic, and play your best. im really excited for you. you got to remember to keep us updated.



at_leo_87 -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 29 2010 4:02:55)

i asked the same question a month ago and here is what pimiento wrote:

"Firstly and importantly......if you are getting paid its not amateur.
What I mean is don't cut yourself short. Act professionally, practice, turn up early and well dressed and you will be treated as professionals. You should ask professional pay too.

Wedding gigs are always priced higher than restaurants/music bars.
150 dollars per hour, per person is fine. You should probably think of 200 each for the first hour to cover travel etc. 350 dollars for 2 hours at a wedding per person is about right but you can negotiate down from there if its a friend. Dont ever charge less than 100 dollars per person per hour or you wont be valued or treated seriously."



beno -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 29 2010 8:40:36)

On the other hand it's strongly depends on where You live.... No matter how professional You act, in Hungary You wouldn't get that much.... Unless you're a very-well-known musician, which is not the case for any instrumentalist.

I have a gipsy friend with lots of experience in almost every kind of music, who can play nearly anything you ask him for (well not that special thing like flamenco, but any jazz, latin, standards, evergreens, hungarian gipsy music, pop, music for weddings really anything, any tune you sing-for the very first time, and so on...) but still stuggle to get on...

My other friend - who I organize concerts for- is a great guitarist, won several international competitions in classical music AND jazz (including the prestigous Montreaux) just got into the finals of the 'Six string theory' competition. That was a dream for thousands of guitarist, and He had no money to travel to the U.S. to take part in it...

It depends on...

So all I'd like to say is: if You have the chance, to charge for Your playing, PLEASE DO SO! [:D]



Thomas -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 29 2010 9:00:15)

[quote="Prominent Critic"]If you're being paid to play, then you ARE a professional[/quote]

I didn't know that it is such easy to become a professional.



Pimientito -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 30 2010 10:06:10)

quote:

If you're being paid to play, then you ARE a professional


quote:

Lowballing your price will get you a bad reputation among your peers


I totally agree with everything that has been said here. Its a very hard step to accept that what you do has value. If you don't value your work then no-one else will.
Of course its great to play for the love of it but don't forget that a restaurant will make a lot of profit because of your talent and its absurd to make a lot of money for another business without charging accordingly. Frankly if you have business cards and a web site and are not charging a professional fee then

1. you will be open to abuse from anyone wanting to take advantage of you
2. You wont be valued by anyone employing you
3. you wont gain any respect from other local musicians

If you charge for your work and you do a professional job then you are by definition professional . Don't cut yourself short. Trust me on this because I did exactly the same thing. The moment you stop charging 40 bucks and beer for a gig and start charging 200+ you will get much better gigs and much more respect as a musician.
The other thing you should remember is that initially doing gigs is a novelty. After a while you realise how much work it is. Unless you are doing a favor for a friend you should charge the same as other musicians. Gerundinos pricing is pretty acurate!



akatune -> [Deleted] (Jul. 30 2010 21:16:21)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 11 2013 17:41:58



Mark2 -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 30 2010 23:19:42)

I would expect a solo guitar player to be able to play some music that sounds good. That's it.

If he's a flamenco player, I'd expect him to play some of the forms in compas. Playing solo gigs in restaurants, etc. is different than playing "flamenco" IMO. If you go into a restaurant and play solea, buleria, sig, etc, you are not going to be as interesting to an American audience than if you mix it up with a few well known classical numbers and more commercial flamenco related stuff like lorca tunes, sevillanas, etc.

For this kind of work, being able to accompany a dancer or singer really doesn't matter, unless of course a dancer or singer wander in, and you are billing yourself as a flamenco guitarist, or even simply playing flamenco. You could find yourself in an embarassing situation.

I know this from personal experience, as I did a lot of solo gigs before I learned to play for dancers. People involved with the art will expect you to know how to play for dancers and singers if your performing flamenco. You don't want to be in a Spanish bar when a guy from Spain walks in and starts singing and you have no clue. Not that that should stop you from doing your thing, but be aware.

For me, once I focused on playing for dance, I let the solo act slip, and reached a point where I didn't enjoy it, despite the money. It's a different gig. There are guys who can spend enough time to be good at both, but it's tough if your also working a day gig.

Your in the same area as I am, and I've found that privates start at 300.00 for two -three sets and can go up considerably from there. As far as what's a professional, that's something that people will have very different opinions on, so don't worry about being a "pro" or not, just play and sound the very best you can.



guido -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 31 2010 16:34:48)

What's the difference between a pro and an amatuer...??
The price? The quality of playing? I don't know really.

I know some guys with many gigs and quite good money they get...but if you compare them to the really "pro's" they would have to bring money to play there...[;)]

i.m.o it depends on the way the artist can make his audience happy for the time they spend e.g. in a restaurant or whatever occasion. Ok: the people booking you of course want to save money an not to spend...that's their business. But don't sell your soul: they have in most cases no knowledge how much time you have been spending in your playing, the hours and the sweat...and how difficult a live performance is!
If I compare some charges of "amateur" artist with the hourly earnings of my civic employee when he cuts off my electric current (in former times...) I could cry: € 40 for 20 sec.[:@]
And then lets look at the wages for all the djs with their laptops...no risk but a lot of fun for them lol

slainte
guido

btw: do you play unplugged or with gear?



XXX -> RE: Charging for gigs (Jul. 31 2010 17:19:28)

The difference between pro and amateur is that the latter doesnt need the gig-money that much, lol. But that doesnt mean that he invests less time. When i think of all the work ive put into my ex-group's "amateur" program, F*CK jeeez! [8|] But i would also do gigs for free, and also did, because you dont get often the opportunity to get stage experience. Its ok i think if you do one gig every couple of months for free (as amateur). A weekly gig is surely something different and should be charged under normal "market" conditions, just like a pro would take (what other people mentioned here). I mean it depends, if theres no money in question you could decline a gig, but you can also use this as experience.
Post below was a double post.



XXX -> [Deleted] (Jul. 31 2010 17:21:05)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jul. 31 2010 17:21:39



akatune -> [Deleted] (Jul. 31 2010 18:51:54)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 11 2013 17:41:50



carlosmg1991 -> RE: Charging for gigs (Aug. 1 2010 4:28:54)

I think it is really important to think of this from the customers perspective. I would suggest the following items for consideration

1. If they've asked you to play they obviously think you are good enough. You should not concern yourself with such issues such as being judged by players, singers or dancers that are above your level. i.e. am I can compas? what if a singer shows up?

2. Show up early and set up early.

3. If you by some chance can't make it (broke your arm, death in family), you better have a professional who can cover for you lined up and you should inform your customers ASAP of the situation. A bride has more than enough to worry on her wedding day... no need to make her or her family stress about finding a replacement.

4. Make sure that you have the proper acoustics set up for the venue (Amp etc.) Make sure there is no feedback especially for a wedding. Doesn't matter how well you play if they can't hear you.

5. Make sure you can play music appropriate for the venue. If it is a lively dinner party, maybe rumbas and light music is in order. Solea, seguiriyas etc. might be off the table. You'd probably want to get there input before the venue.



gerundino63 -> RE: Charging for gigs (Aug. 1 2010 10:14:50)

One thing more to consider......If you become a pro, you lose a wonderfull hobby.....



Ron.M -> RE: Charging for gigs (Aug. 1 2010 13:03:43)

Another thing to consider is becoming a busker. [:D]

You can make your own hours...and you don't need to have a lot of material.

The money can be OK too if you can get a good location like a busy shopping centre.

cheers,

Ron



ronzy60 -> RE: Charging for gigs (Aug. 1 2010 13:37:07)

Ron.....
Don't you need a licence to work as a busker? ( In Blackpool you have to pay for this...ist not free)

Ronzy



gerundino63 -> RE: Charging for gigs (Aug. 1 2010 13:43:32)

Did it with 2 frends in Saintes Maries de la Mer during the Gipsy pilgrimige week,

Was kicked off the terrace..............[:D]

It is not nice to be treated as a gipsy.



Ron.M -> RE: Charging for gigs (Aug. 1 2010 14:12:54)

I dunno, Ronzy....I don't think so..

In London I think you need a permit from the Council, but that's just to control the amount of buskers as I heard on the Radio a few years ago that there were 4 or 5 buskers in every tube station and one at practically every street corner and folk were getting fed up with the "noise pollution".

In Scotland (as far as I know) Police can move you on if they think you are being a nuisance etc...but so long as nobody minds then it should be OK.

In Aberdeen a few years back, I remember seeing this old drunk dosser staggering about one of the shopping malls, "playing" harmonica...basically he was just sucking and blowing at random...and shouting and swearing at the passers by for not putting money in his hat. [:D]

He didn't last long though..

cheers,

Ron



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