One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Full Version)

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ToddK -> One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 25 2004 16:36:10)

Yeah yeah, its Christmas, whoopdy doo!
I got myself a new toothbrush.[:)]

I was recently informed of a thread regarding my Bulerias
video, @ the Paco de Lucia forum. I know, yikes![8D]

Its all in spanish of course, so i've been trying to translate it with
software. Its very ruff, but i seem to be reaching the conclusion
that they are completely thrown by my lack of facial expresion,
or signs of effort.
This seems to equate, for them, to an overall lack of, well, i dont know,
musicality?.
They dont seem very happy about the pick either.[8D]
But i really cant tell what they're saying.

If anybody speaks spanish, and cares to go there and read, maybe you
can enlighten me as to what their issues are.
I'm just curious, cause i think even if its bad, it will help me in one way
or another. I'm not gonna go over there and start anything, as i dont
speak spanish.[:D][;)]
If the lack of body language is the case, maybe i should make another
video in wich i do the PDL "serious concentration" face..
Maybe some shoulder shrugs on the 12 beat or something.
Ya think? Grow my hair long, along with a little 5'0clock shadow?
Polka dot shirt? Help me out here people![&o]
Toddk



Guest -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 25 2004 18:19:06)

Hola Todd

There are lots of PdL sites. Post the URL and I will translate some things or even defend you[;)]

Sean



ToddK -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 25 2004 21:22:08)

Oh yeah, sorry!

Here it is....... http://www.pacodelucia.org/foro/viewtopic.php?t=2325

Thanks Sean!

Seeya,
Toddk



Ron.M -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 25 2004 21:41:22)

Hi Todd,
I can't read too much Spanish, but some of the things I could make out, they were saying pretty good things about you.
Maybe Paco will read it and invite you over to have a closer look at your technique!
It is unique and very, very good.

Hey...enjoy that toothbrush man!
(I got an electronic "humping" dog! LOL!)


cheers

Ron



Miguel de Maria -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 1:24:27)

I got an incredible hangover for Christmas. Man.... we had some people over for the Eve and I overdid it. Horrible, horrible! I'm getting too old for this... But I got a nice gold chain from my wife, some books, and my sweet parents sent me a "Best of Carlos Montoya" CD.



ToddK -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 2:10:17)

Uh oh, Carlos "no compas" Montoya?

Ha ha, i keed, i'm a keeder![:)][:D]

I remember when i first got to Flamenco Teacher, and i brought
up Manitas De Plata.
Oh my god, i''ve never stopped regreting that day!! [8D]



Guest -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 17:42:16)

Hola Todd

This is roughly what they were saying. Seems you need no defending.
Suerte
Sean


Paquitocosta
Here he lacks rasgeo, which is not a small thing, which is the only thing he needs to perfect

Rafael de Dios
How cold he plays, even por bulerias. The sound is fantastic, the guitar sounds very flamenco, the technique is amazing: it merits a OLE, but in spite of everything, he lack feeling.

Yosu
Well, I have to go on giving 10 out of 10 to the kid: to play flamenco with a pick seems to me extraordinarily difficult, it sounds flamenco and after all he doesnt even speak Spanish.

eputignia.
The truth is that the kid plays very well. He has a great deal of merit. Sounds very flamenco.

Luis Vargas
Well, in spite of whether you say he lacks feeling or lacks a lot: he left me astonished. This kid is a phenemenon and this is not learned any old way. He deserves high praise from me, the falseta is by no means easy: it requres concentration so here the kid seems cold but do you really believe that if he did not have the feeling inside he could play like this, being from so far away? It touches me...I am going to listen to it again.

Teo
Congratulations to this kid!. He has a lot of talent and plays with a pick better than others play with 5 fingers ha-ha. He has drawn out all the technical possibilities of playing flamenco with a pick. One question: does he have problems with his thumb and index finger? I think, if he has no problems with these fingers, he has to get accustomed to playing apoyando with thumb and index. It would need some time, but in this way he could achieve an even more flamenco sound, in my sincere opinion.

eputignia
I asked him if he was reading music: well, this guy is not reading at all.He says he is looking at nothing while he plays. I have spoken with another friend who knows him personally and says that Todd has a great ear for learning falsetas. This friend told me that he learned the guajiras de Manolo Sanlucar perfectly in 2 weeks.
He is a special case. That is the only explanation I can offer. As well as playing extremely well he seems to be a nice person. And this thing about playing cold.....I do not believe it at all. He plays very flamenco, with a lot of compas and a lot of feeling. I am not the greatest expert on flamenco but I know what sounds good and what doesnt. I can assure you that this guy is very flamenco.

Rafael de Dios
Perhaps of those who have written, I am the least expert but the video does not move me. I do not doubt that he feels what he plays, but it does not seem so in this video because he is stern, without a single gesture in the whole piece.I know that this man is supergifted, but Vicente Amigo doesnt move me either, although he is absolute perfection.



ToddK -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 20:25:04)

Thank you very much for doing that Sean.
I really enjoy reading what people think.

That was fun!

Cheers,
TK



Miguel de Maria -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 20:30:35)

Todd, RE: Playing with feeling.

In these cases, people often listen with their eyes.

M.D. Maria



Escribano -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 20:55:52)

Thanks for taking the trouble Sean, Todd could do with more feedback from those who haven't heard him before - especially Spanish flamenco fans. The video pays no favours in terms of a visual experience but that is not what is intended. I trust word gets around and he gets some more exposure. We can all improve - no matter how good (or bad) we think we are.

I particularly like the "plays with a pick better than others play with 5 fingers" quote.

BTW - Todd, I like your Simpson's signature. Perhaps we should all choose one[:D] Happy Holidays!



Escribano -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 21:02:29)

quote:

Maybe some shoulder shrugs on the 12 beat or something.
Ya think? Grow my hair long, along with a little 5'0clock shadow?
Polka dot shirt? Help me out here people!


White shirt and a waistcoat (I think you call it a vest)[:D] Maybe a false ponytail and moustache?



Ron.M -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 21:11:29)

quote:

He is a special case. That is the only explanation I can offer. As well as playing extremely well he seems to be a nice person. And this thing about playing cold.....I do not believe it at all. He plays very flamenco, with a lot of compas and a lot of feeling. I am not the greatest expert on flamenco but I know what sounds good and what doesnt. I can assure you that this guy is very flamenco.


I told you Todd,
Just keep at it!

cheers

Ron



Miguel de Maria -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 21:51:16)

Todd,
I haven't got a chance to check out any of your videos yet (this stinking Mac!), but if you are getting this reaction, there are two reasons probably at play:

1) other guitarists love to pick out fault
2) you need some stage moves

Seriously, I'm sure it's no news to you that Image is very important. Paco says he doesn't like that flamencos are called "entertainers," and I sympathize with that sentiment, but like it or not, that is how we are viewed by most people. Most people would put a serious guitarist such as yourself into the same broad category as Britney Spears.

Painful? Of course... But how do we adjust to the real world in order to find our version of success?

I have only been playing solo for less than a year, but I am getting a good amount of work. You know that I am only an average (but working hard!) player, but I also take care of business--promotion, networking, image, professionalism. This is not only directed at Todd, of course, but anyone who wants to talk about working as a musician.

I get jobs over other players because people know that I am going to show up on time, there aren't going to be any problems, I'm not going to get drunk and hit on the clients' possibly of-age daughters, etc. etc. Musicians don't exactly have a reputation for professionalism, and when you can give that impression to people, it really helps. At least in the pretty tame industry of background music in which I currently reside.

But even though I am not playing in front of 10,000 screaming, pulling off their concert T-shirts groupie type crowds--yet :) -- I still consider Image very important. People expect a musician to act and look a certain way, and if you don't do that, that is a negative. I know that I have just proposed a contradiction. It is a funny thing to try to look and act like a musician, yet still radiate non-musician-like traits such as professionalism and punctuality.

But I'm ramblin' and preachin' here. Short story is--dress like a musician, close your eyes during the picado runs (but practice those faces so you don't look too silly), and move around a little bit--and you will get a better response.



ToddK -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 22:23:08)

Some great thoughts there Miguel.

I think you're right on.... Its funny, for me, i enjoy watching people
play an instrument, and i usually watch the hands. I dont care
what the facial expresions are doing. I think its cool to watch somebody
do amazing technical feats, with seemingly zero effort.
But i understand that some people are really affected by bodylanguage.
And they need a little of that aspect to get in to the performers state of mind.

BTW, there is a Windows Media player especially for Mac, wich
allows you to play these files.
Google it, and check it out!

If you cant play WM files, you're missing alot of stuff on the net! :)

TK



Miguel de Maria -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 22:37:37)

Todd,
yeah, for some reason I can't get the WMA on 9.2. I have to go to my wife's office to check out WMAs. I look forward to seeing your "unemotional" performance. :)

But you and I maybe look at these things different than the average Joe. People who really want to learn and get it know you can learn a lot more looking at how someone does it than what kind of faces they have eh?

MWC



ToddK -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 26 2004 23:42:26)

Ya know what would be hilarious?

If somebody did a video upload, of a "how to move like a gitano" instructional.

They could do all the great facial expresions, etc etc.... That would make
a great comedy sketch, it has to be done totally seriously, without laughing..

That would be a hoot.[8D]



Conrad -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 2:58:10)

You're a hoot for writing "hoot"! ...

That would be funny though.

Looks like there are some nice people at the pacodelucia forum. Sometimes I mosy on to there to check out what's happening. I crudely translate what their writing with freetranslation.com.

cheers,

Con



Kate -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 12:21:09)

Agh Todd it would awful, offensive, think black and white minstrels. Imagine making a video called ' How to move like a black man" ? Sorry to always be the ' no racism' montor here but I cant help it, years of working on anti racist campaigns, and fighting for minority rights, making them figures of fun, however innocent the intention, is simply not acceptable.

Anyway Todd dont worry about not being facially expressive when you play, I much prefer the serene look myself, leave the contortions to the singers who really are putting their facial muscles through the paces. I saw a young lad play the other day and he was doing that circus trick, ie making it look as if he was doing something so difficult it hurt when he could have done the whole thing blindfold wihout flinching.

Kate



ToddK -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 15:20:22)

Kate, my darling, i said "gypsy". I did NOT say Spaniard.
I said NOTHING regarding race.

There are gypsies in more places than in Spain.

I wasnt refering to a race, i was refering to a guitar style.

Goodness gracious, what is it with me, and forums.

I may never really "get it". :)

TK



Escribano -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 15:57:13)

quote:

wasnt refering to a race


Gypsies (or Romas) are a race, or many races, I am never sure and racism against them is rife in Spain. It's not you and forums, Todd. You make forum life interesting!

Kate wasn't really having a go, just doing her job[;)]



Kate -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 15:58:44)

Todd,

Dont worry I'm not having a go at you personally I do it to everyone. But Gypsy (like Jew) is a race, not a nationality as you quite rightly say as you find Gypsies (and Jews) in many countries.

But I understand better what you meant now, ie you were referring to a guitar style, well lets call it 'flamenco' then [:D] And the video should be called 'How to move like a flamenco' [:)]

Sorted,

Kate



Kate -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 16:02:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano
Kate wasn't really having a go, just doing her job[;)]



Its bit like being milk monitor at school. ie lousy job, no pay

Kate[:D]



ToddK -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 16:27:28)

Hmmm, well then maybe on of you should contact
Websters Dictionary, and tell them they are mistaken.

This is Websters definition,

gypsy== One inclined to a nomadic, unconventional way of life.
A person who moves from place to place as required for employment, especially:
A part-time or temporary member of a college faculty.
A member of the chorus line in a theater production.

It says nothing about a particular race or creed. AT least not in my particular
copy of it.

I also specifically recall my Spanish teacher in high school, describing gypsies
as nomads, and not a race of people like Jews etc etc....

So if i'm wrong, it is a clear case of typical U.S.A. misinformation.
They do that to us alot here. [:@]
Toddk



Escribano -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 16:34:56)

quote:

A part-time or temporary member of a college faculty


Over here they are called "lecturers"[;)]



Miguel de Maria -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 16:59:59)

I used to have a pretty mainstream idea of race and political correctness when I was younger, because I was raised pretty "white." My parents would take me to a Chinese restaurant and they would bring McDonalds for my brother and I, because we were such brats! I grew up identifying with my Caucasian side and not at all with my Asian ancestry. But as I got older, I started to realize--when people here look at me, they don't look at me as an American, they look at me as Asian (or Oriental, or a Chink, whatever it may be). So once that happens, a lot of seemingly innoccent things start to come into sharper relief.

Most Caucasian Americans really have no idea what it is like to be a minority. The thing that will hit home for you, Todd--imagine if the way you are treated by finger-elite guitar players was how you were treated in your regular life. The difference--your pick--obscures and colors everyone's perception of you, never mind the many similarities all guitar players and flamenco nuts have! Most Caucasian Americans don't understand or believe that this is how it is to be a minority in American (or anywhere else). But it's important to become aware of this fact.

It is getting better here in the States, I think. I turn on the TV and see black people, yellow people, brown people all the time now. Before, you might go months before seeing one Asian person on TV. I know a lot of Caucasians feel their culture is being marginalized, but what is really happening is that America is getting closer to our touted ideal of a "melting pot." At least in the media. And that is a start.

I used to think that things like Kate was talking about were stupid. I was pretty chauvanistic, and although I had nothing against other races, I was completely insensitive to their plight. But I appreciate what Kate is doing and hope that it will just move us all toward a more tolerant world. We have to remember something: The same force that makes us roll our eyes at "political correctness" and "the race card" makes suicide bombers tick and racial genocide such as those in Rwanda and Kosovo and the Sudan possible. It's ignorance, specifically ignoring the facts of the racial power struggle at the heart of world/national politics.

Ooops, that was OT!

So... back to scales amigos!



Mark2 -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 17:03:45)

Todd, thanks for sharing that video. The playing sounds very very good and the guitar sounds great as well. You do look sort of uninterested in the video, but so what. The feeling is in the sound and technique, and it's there. That pick technique to produce flamenco is really unreal. I'd never have thought it possible to play flamenco that well holding a pick. Congrats on creating something that didn't exist before.
The word "Gypsy" refers to a race, as well as a description of a lifestyle. I've met many American Gypsies and can tell you that not only are they their own race of people, but have a completely unique culture.



Kate -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 18:21:41)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

Hmmm, well then maybe on of you should contact
Websters Dictionary, and tell them they are mistaken.


Actually I recently signed a petition passed round all the 'Roma' Organisations regarding the Webster definition which is totally incorrect. I mean what a load of twaddle, not to mention highly offensive to a whole race of people. So as far as I know they should have been contacted.

Dont worry Todd, many people are unaware of the realities of the Gypsy races. Did you know there over 2,000,000 Gypsies of various tribes in the States, many integrated and some still travelling, speaking their own languages and keeping their own customs. There was a film about them called the Hidden Americans, if I remember right, though I haven't seen it. I speak with many Gypsys all over the world through various forums. I was talking only the other day with a Romanichal living in Wales who had read that the Welsh Gypsies and their language were extinct !! He had a good laugh about that.

Kate



ToddK -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 18:53:43)

Thanks Kate and Miguel

I'm actually glad this came up, as i would certainly hate to
say something politically incorrect, unawaredly.

So thank you for the education. Its very strange how i could grow
up among a flamenco community, and never pick up on that fact.
[8D]

I feel a bit ignorant. [&o]

Thanks all,
Toddk



Ron.M -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 27 2004 22:01:35)

quote:

Ooops, that was OT!


No it wasn't.
That was very well put Mike.
For what it's worth, once you get out of the big towns in Scotland and get into the smaller places, things get better. Folk live more as a community.
A neighbour who lives down the road from us is Malaysian and her kids are best friends with my daughter, and their mum is one of the stalwart forces in the village, putting on various things for the young folk to do in the school holidays and is a much respected person in the community, as is another lady, Asian/English, who is also highly respected for her wisdom and also sense of humour.
One of the things I learned from travelling around the world, is that no matter where you go, things are the same.
Only the shop signs are written in a foreign language, but folk are the same the world over.
Everybody loves their kids and wants the best for them.
Everybody needs a roof over their heads and something to eat and drink.
And everybody loves to laugh and cry and dance to some good music.
We're all only Human after all and it's only one life.

cheers

Ron



Kate -> RE: One more time, with Feeling, or something that resembles it (Dec. 28 2004 17:10:30)

quote:

ORIGINAL:
So thank you for the education. Its very strange how i could grow
up among a flamenco community, and never pick up on that fact.
[8D]

Hi Todd,

You're welcome. I learn so much here ( apart from actually learning to play the guitar that is [&:] ) that I'm pleased to contribute, after all we are all here to learn from each other and very few people know about Gypsy culture, for good reason we tend to keep stuff hidden. I guess you heard about the holocaust already.

So, am curious, where was the flamenco community you grew up in that you managed to remain unaware of the Gypsy culture ?

Someone was asking about Django on the forum and just wanted to say he is a Manouche Gypsy, as opposed to the Spanish who are Cale Gypsies.

Kate



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