Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Full Version)

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GypsyRoad -> Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Jul. 6 2010 3:04:45)

I've been using my Navarro, a beautiful, wonderful sounding guitar. Until today...

My left hand is making indentions in the back of the neck, and I literally cannot pull it out to play without adding a new scratch to it or ding. I play hard, yes, but I didn't think that my thumbnail alone would leave strings of grooves along the back of the neck?!?

My nephew accidentally bumped it today and cracked the side, about an inch and a half long, as well as adding another wonderful scratch to go with it. It's like the finish is play dough quite honestly. Is this what I should expect from a Flamenco guitar for the rest of my playing?



Leendert -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Jul. 6 2010 3:47:34)

Interesting, I have a Navarro since a couple of weeks and I already have a couple of dings on the ring of the body which was touching the armrest of the chair while I was playing it....also a dent already on the back when I accidentally hit it against a table..
Any other people having this problem? Is this a 'typical' thing for a Navarro finish? or like Gypsyroad asked typical for a Flamenco guitar?....I`m sure the Navarro being a "cheaper" price range also is likely to be the cause of it...even though the guitar plays and sounds great.



Graham_B -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Jul. 6 2010 6:37:03)

There may be a finish issue, but....

Hi GypsyRoad

quote:

I didn't think that my thumbnail alone would leave strings of grooves along the back of the neck?!?


Why is your thumbnail in contact with the back of the neck when you're playing?
With correct technique the thumbnail shouldn't be in contact with the neck.

I don't know what type of finish Navarro use, I have no experience of this luthier, but I cannot imagine any finish coping with a player constantly running their fingernail up and down it.

quote:

My nephew accidentally bumped it today and cracked the side


Was the guitar 'bumped' against a solid object?
Any guitar, but especially a comparatively lightly built flamenco guitar, is likely to come off second best in a collision with a human.

Hi Leendert

quote:

I already have a couple of dings on the ring of the body which was touching the armrest of the chair while I was playing it....also a dent already on the back when I accidentally hit it against a table


Do you really expect any finish to protect the guitar unscathed in these circumstances?

Flipping heck some guitars lead a hard life!![:)]



HolyEvil -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Jul. 6 2010 8:10:08)

ANY acoustic guitar would have a dent if bumped into a chair/table/wall etc.. definitely.
Not sure why there would be scratches on the back of the neck of the guitar tho, if your nail scratches it and it's french polish then yes you would scratch it. My thumb slipped on the face of my guitar several nights ago when I wasn't concentrating and it has a light scratch resulting from it, very normal I guess.

cheers



Stephen Eden -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Jul. 6 2010 10:26:11)

Hey gypsyroad

It does depend on the finish of the guitar, wether or not it can withstand thumb nails or finger nails.

French polish is by far the softest. and yes it will ding even after years of curing.

I think even ceullose laquer is pretty east to dent with your finger nail (not sure on this though as I havent used it before)

The most durable finish is the polyurthane laquer which can be very hard indeed but this type of finnish is known to strangle the guitar so no the perfect finnish there.

Flamenco guitars thar are lightly built will crack very easily if knocked. you will probably find the the sides of you guitar are about 2mm thick or even less. Which will not stand up well to being hit by anything. However a crack like that can be easily repaired and will not effect the sound of the instremnt. :)



RobJe -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Jul. 6 2010 15:02:46)

Don't sit on your guitar (like Vicente Amigo and Diego del Gastor did) - this can be terminal (Diego) or very expensive (Vicente). I know it's very sad when your guitar gets damaged but a few small blemishes will enhance your reputation as a player!
I have a friend who wishes that manufacturers should put a dent in every new car before they sell it - this way the customer doesn't have to go through the sadness that comes with the first accident. Perhaps some enterprising luthier could start selling pre-dented guitars.



a_arnold -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Aug. 17 2010 14:31:40)

quote:

My left hand is making indentions in the back of the neck,


My Castillo blanca does the same if I don't keep my left thumb nail very short. It is the wood. I requested mahogany necks in my Castillo negras, and they don't have this problem, but I requested a Spanish cedar neck in the blanca because it is lighter in weight (bcz I hold the guitar the "traditional" flamenco way, lower bout balanced on right thigh) -- but it is also softer. Cedar dents very easily. It resists warping much like mahogany, and looks like mahogany, but is really very soft, and the finish doesn't seem to be enough to harden it.

Incidentally, this is not the same cedar used for guitar tops. Different wood altogether. I don't even know if they are related.

I have a Manuel de la Chica ('67) that I bought new in '67 and I have played the heck out of that thing (and never worried about my left thumb nail) -- so much playing I have worn the finish off part of the back of the neck, but it hasn't dented at all. Just the finish gone. It is mahogany. Hard. Takes abuse better than Spanish cedar.

So there you have a "scientific" comparison of mahogany and Spanish cedar. same player, different woods. The cedar dents super easily after a year of playing. And is cheaper than mahogany. But also lighter. The mahogany Chica neck has not a single dent after 50 years of similar treatment.



a_arnold -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Aug. 17 2010 14:35:40)

quote:

Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar?


I cant imagine a more delicate guitar. Two pounds? How can they not be fragile?

Plus they get more abuse than almost any guitar. OK: except rock guitars that are beaten on the stage and set on fire.

And Willie Nelson's guitar. . .



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kovachian -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Aug. 17 2010 14:41:33)

Isn't it possible to use steam to lift small dents out of wood? I think there's a way to do that - that is, unless the dents don't bother you much.



Doitsujin -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Aug. 17 2010 19:24:09)

quote:

And Willie Nelson's guitar. . .




If you do this to your guitar, you are a dic k. Tats completely uncool. Oh man... *bang hand to forehead*

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Ron.M -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Aug. 17 2010 19:42:27)

quote:

And Willie Nelson's guitar. . .


OK...but it's still in not bad nick considering he's used it as an ashtray and a toilet for the past 40 years...[:D]

cheers,

Ron



a_arnold -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Aug. 19 2010 2:15:07)

quote:

Isn't it possible to use steam to lift small dents out of wood? I think there's a way to do that - that is, unless the dents don't bother you much.


Hmm. I don't think steam is gonna help Willie Nelson's guitar much . . .



Doitsujin -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Aug. 19 2010 14:49:00)

quote:

Hmm. I don't think steam is gonna help Willie Nelson's guitar much . . .


Good one! [:D] hehe



Jeff Highland -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Aug. 22 2010 7:59:21)

I'll stick to my Tele for barroom fights then.



Pimientito -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Aug. 22 2010 14:13:49)

I cant believe He's still using that guitar. You'd think with all the millions Willie Nelson has made he could afford a new one :D



Doitsujin -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Aug. 22 2010 17:59:31)

quote:

I cant believe He's still using that guitar. You'd think with all the millions Willie Nelson has made he could afford a new one :D


Maybe he thinks its cool.... maybe we would think that too when being continuously stoned...



Munin -> RE: Are Flamenco's the most delicate Guitar? (Sep. 2 2010 14:25:36)

Flamenco guitars sure are delicate, but combine them with a somewhat clumsy person like me and it's a recipe for disaster. I'm starting to lose count with the little dents at the edge of the top of my Sanchis 2f-05...then again, those aren't supposed to be stellar in their manufacturing quality. So I don't know. It doesn't bother me a lot except in the way that it impedes resale value.



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