RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Full Version)

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estebanana -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (May 31 2010 22:47:02)

quote:

But I think it is a worthwhile exercise looking at things from different angles. Even if it may prove to be wrong, it can help show other things.


I like that because it shows lack of fear, and imagination.



jshelton5040 -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Jun. 1 2010 7:54:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deteresa1

jshelton, weren't you the one earlier who was disparaging Canadian Cypress as back/side wood because of its "junk" taptone?? Well I guess you can use it anyway now that it won't matter [:D]

Actually I said that the Alaskan Yellow Cedar that I have is junk and I wouldn't use it. I have built guitars with it but it was many years ago and only because I didn't have any cured cypress or knowledge of other alternatives at the time. I still don't consider it a tone wood but if someone would send me a set that is nice and stiff with a good tap tone I'm perfectly willing to stand corrected[;)]. Currently I would prefer a whole range of woods which are readily available to AYC.



a_arnold -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Jun. 1 2010 14:17:29)

What is the purpose of a flamenca blanca?

(a rhetorical question, BTW. I expect someone is sure to miss the point . . .)



gj Michelob -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Jun. 1 2010 16:07:14)

What is the purpose of a Flamenca Negra?:

A. To induce those who already have a flamenco guitar (Blanca) to buy a second guitar;
B. To induce us to allocate our financial resources to buy two medium priced flamenco guitars (Blanca y Negra)
so that we can then save to buy an expensive third guitar;
C. To stir a debate about the purpose of a Flamenco Negra;
D. To coordinate when wearing brown shoes;
E. To save Cypress from extinction;
F. To allow luthiers an excuse to charge more;
G. To also stiff flamenco players –not just classical- with the dearly paid legend of Brazilian Rosewood;
H. To foster the philosophical dichotomy of matter and spirit;
I. To allow us an excuse that “it would sound so much better if I had a Negra”;
J. To legitimize Paco de Lucia’s mistake;
K. To sort out the problem of Cypress pungent smell, or players’ allergic reactions to it;
L. To challenge our audible range;
M. To have us stare at two guitars instead of playing one.



Alonte -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Jun. 1 2010 16:15:36)

Wow! Great thoughts GJ! If you posted these points earlier we wouldnt have all these messy 4 page thread of whatever.



cathulu -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Jun. 1 2010 19:51:09)

Here here! I concur, GJ makes the most sense!

Thanks Estebanana, I take that as a very kind compliment. If I misinterpret, please don't spoil it for me. :)



tommyV -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Jun. 14 2010 8:59:30)

I guess Negra has more volume and strenght...



keith -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Jun. 14 2010 14:46:27)

maybe a negra was introduced so we would not get bored with a blanca and drift to playing a vuvuzela. if so, the inventor should be given sainthood. any luthier thinking about making a wood vuvuzela should be shot on sight.

for those who do not know what is a vuvuzela--watch a world cup soccer match this week and that swarm of bees you hear is 1000's of vuvuzela being "played".

seriously, i think a negra has a legit place in flamenco as a guitar that that can add a lot to the music and still be flamenco. although i may be a blanca man there are plenty of negra's out there i would not mind having. sanlucar's negra ramirez would be one of them.



estebanana -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Jun. 14 2010 19:11:00)

The real question is what is the difference between a Vuvu made of African Black wood and a Vuvu made of Mexican Cypress?

Is a blacna vuvu more better for futbol than a negra vuvu?



keith -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Jun. 14 2010 22:19:28)

a negra vuvu having a longer sustain that a blanca would be good for a solo performance whereas a blanca would be good or a group performance. either way, the player, in a just world, would be shot before they could put their lips onto their vuvu.



D.A. -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Nov. 22 2025 3:58:12)

A negra is a great guitar for jazz!



Ricardo -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Nov. 22 2025 16:17:43)

well, necro post has been done so why not add? Most of my career I have been a blanca man. It has a more pure tone, to my perception playing it. I did a blind test on myself and was shocked to learn it is purely subjective and the true sound is indistinguishable if you can equalize everything. So it is about looks and feel. I still feel negras "feel" as they look, like classical guitars pretending to be flamencos, but I have learned to embrace the negras in my old age (gradually my Conde negra got more use since Paco died). I have three, and one classical, and I love them equally to my Blancas for what they are. I consider the outliers (maple and lawson cypress aka port Orford cedar, and yellow alaskan cypress) all kind of the same. And I can't really perceive or care the difference between Brazilian and Indian (Indian doesn't smell good like Brazil and Cypress), so I have three categories, negra, blanca, and other.



Arash -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Nov. 23 2025 11:00:18)

What about Pau Ferro. I think it is the most "blancaish" sounding and feeling Negra if built well. It always sounded a bit different to me than Palisanto and I like it more. Don't know exactly how to describe it with words, but some sort of "hollow" tone which distinguishes it from typical classical sounding Negra feel



estebanana -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Nov. 24 2025 2:39:22)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

The real question is what is the difference between a Vuvu made of African Black wood and a Vuvu made of Mexican Cypress?

Is a blacna vuvu more better for futbol than a negra vuvu?



I see that 15 years ago I was still way ahead of the curve. I inquired about the difference between a Cypress and a Rosewood vuvuzela.

Anyone?



Ricardo -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Nov. 24 2025 16:07:26)

quote:

What about Pau Ferro.


Never played one of those Conde versions, but I did try several other makers using that wood, or "Bolivian Rosewood" as some called it. Felt more or less the same to me as Indian Rosewood even though it was not as dark looking. And as I said earlier, I can't tell much difference with the Brazilian vs Indian, or the "Caviuna" whatever that was (tried one Conde with that and again it seemed just like my negras of Indian).



Echi -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Nov. 24 2025 16:34:15)

Caviuna or Pauferro while being similar in weight with Brazilian rosewood is a wood with strong dampening effect, while Brazilian sounds glass like. That’s why you get a sort of “round” and soft attack or transient of the note. It’s the same effect you may associate with maple flamenco guitars.
I owned for a while a nice flamenco negra and noticed more and morte that thing.
Sanchis used to sell their 1f extra model with different woods and the model called Buleria made with pauferro. Tipically these Buleria guitars had this peculiarity.



estebanana -> RE: What IS the purpose of a flamenca negra? (Nov. 25 2025 1:01:24)

I have a different opinion on Caviuna. Pauferro is a generic blanket name for a lot of different but related kinds of trees. It’s a batch by batch assessment of how good it is for guitars. Caviuna is unreliable as a name, it might be this it it might be that wood and they are very similar but not precisely the same.

It’s like hard wood decking that’s exported from Brazil, it’s called Ipe’ but Ipe’ is a branding name.

That’ said not all Ironwood is too thuddy to make good guitars with, the trick is not making the ribs too thick and making a back that’s not too heavy. You can enhance the way the wood resonates by gluing stiffening braces on the ribs perpendicular to the grain. Like around the lower bouts add three or four light cross grain stiffeners. Like 4 x 4 mm.

In reality a guitar made from a good batch of Pau Ferro wouldn’t be distinguishable from rosewoods in a blind test.

I think the main reason it’s not commonly sought after is because it’s not dramatically colored, it’s kind of plain and it has ‘interlocking ‘ grain. The grain changes direction on one surface. It’s difficult to hand plane and not fun to scrape, which means a lot of your time building with it will be spend sanding instead of planing. It’s not super fun stuff to use.



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