M.S.A. -> just too good to miss this one! (May 19 2010 18:52:02)
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Elie -> RE: just too good to miss this one! (May 19 2010 22:08:50)
He's so amazing damn[:(] he put so much feeling in that piece
Stu -> RE: just too good to miss this one! (May 19 2010 23:56:28)
i like this piece.
id like to know where this place is!?
I've seen lots of vids where all the big boys are playing on this stage for what looks like a really small special audience. whats the story??
is it especially for this TV programme?
M.S.A. -> [Deleted] (May 20 2010 0:18:56)
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M.S.A. -> [Deleted] (May 20 2010 0:20:48)
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Ricardo -> RE: just too good to miss this one! (May 20 2010 4:34:44)
As "modern and jazzy" as many think tomatito to be, this Rondeña is pretty conservative and trad. 3:20 to 4:04 is Ramon Montoya (paco used to play that too) and 4:04 to the end is Paco's Doblen Campanas from Duende. And along the way many quotes from Paco's ligados.
Even though this is over 10 years old, at that time PDL had already been performing his "Camaron" super modern Rondeña in concert. Perfect example of how PDL was zooming past many of the little monsters he created, and why he is still looked up to by the young generation of "hot shots".
Guest -> [Deleted] (May 20 2010 4:55:13)
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M.S.A. -> [Deleted] (May 20 2010 5:11:10)
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Guest -> [Deleted] (May 20 2010 5:18:16)
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M.S.A. -> [Deleted] (May 20 2010 6:02:35)
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Guest -> [Deleted] (May 20 2010 6:09:19)
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Ricardo -> RE: just too good to miss this one! (May 20 2010 6:13:54)
quote:
this authorship is so misty... all these ideas have been so many times taken over by artists, so it already became a traditional thing.
Peña plays pretty much note for note Ramon's orginal recorded version. You are correct that perhaps Ramon did not invent in a "vacuum" so to speak. The only anecdote we have I think was from Pepe Matrona, and old cantaor but seemed pretty sharp in his interview in Rito y Geografia. Anyway, I READ somewhere he said that Miguel Borrull Sr used to play Rondeña as a guitar solo. Borrull and Montoya bumping elbows in madrid, as we discussed in other threads, it could be a back and forth influence and gradual evolution.
Anyway, since we have recordings it is safe to say PDL and Peña (Sabicas too etc) was copying direct from Montoya's recording a lot of those ligados and voicings etc, then Tomatito copied PDL, and on it goes.
Montoya version note for note pretty much at 2:45 you see what tomate did, but many little things too along the way (like tomatito above at 1:45 is the intro to the orginal below):
Ricardo -> RE: just too good to miss this one! (May 20 2010 6:41:51)
Another example of trad stuff evolving, look at the theme Peña plays above at 2:10. Now imagine that melody played as bass notes with arpegios instead of that boom chunk rhythm.
now look at 3:45 here:
Hard to notice paco paying homage very subtly to Montoya there.
Guest -> [Deleted] (May 20 2010 7:34:36)
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M.S.A. -> [Deleted] (May 20 2010 8:29:15)
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