Dani de Moron (Full Version)

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jg7238 -> Dani de Moron (Apr. 28 2010 11:32:38)

This guy has tremendous soniquete. Nice Bulerias and I like how he plays around with dissonance towards the later part unlike Diego del Morao who I think is a bit more melodic.





Ailsa -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 28 2010 11:52:52)

A friend of mine did an intensive course with him in Utrera a couple of summers ago - said he was great.




jg7238 -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 28 2010 12:07:10)

Yeah, he has a great style.




Arash -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 28 2010 12:41:04)

Dani is great.

Also check out Paquete , if you like "unusual" styles a bit







jg7238 -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 28 2010 13:34:48)

Thnx Arash for the videos. Good stuff.




NormanKliman -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 28 2010 23:09:54)

Anyone want to take a guess as to what Morente is singing?




Ailsa -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 28 2010 23:46:34)

Well it's a Solea por Bulerias, but that's too easy, so I'm assuming you mean a specific one? Put us out of our misery Norman, tell us what it is!!




NormanKliman -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 0:13:55)

Hi Ailsa,

quote:

so I'm assuming you mean a specific one?


Yeah, it's actually mislabeled. Of course, what he's singing are his own cantes, but they're based on at least one style of soleá (not BpS, SpB, etc.)

Should I just say what I think it is?




Guest -> [Deleted] (Apr. 29 2010 0:52:39)

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Ailsa -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 1:27:09)

Oh right, it's actually Solea, not SpB? My ears deceive me! I've got some old recordings of Solea which are quite fast and it's easy to confuse them. Has romerito got it? He's a bit of flamenco academic, I wouldn't be surprised [:D]




mezzo -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 1:38:56)

for me too some melodic verse reminds me the apola/charamusco form

quote:

Oh right, it's actually Solea, not SpB? My ears deceive me!

no. it's normal [;)]
the solea apola/charamusco seems a soleaporbuleria compas pattern (maybe?)





NormanKliman -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 5:14:36)

Yup, that's what I'm hearing, too. Morente's been singing the Charamusco thing for a long time. It's not really a soleá apolá, but it's got that Triana aire, with the soaring high notes in the first part, the low notes in the end, and all the ups and downs in between.

Look what happens at 3:28 in the Charamusco video.




Elie -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 7:48:20)

wow I really like the way he's playing that buleria he looks like he's dancing with his guitar .. thanx for sharin




Doitsujin -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 8:21:37)

Dani de Moron... tststs... I told you about this guy years ago when I had a workshop with him. Hes actually Daniel Mendez.. I dislike these fance nicknames... Dani sounds also somehow gay.. And I´ve send a 10 minute long fully transcribed bulerias in weird tuning of him (he teached completely in the workshop) to modern toque but they never uploaded this... so.. Nobody was every interested. And now you found him under his new name and listen. Thats nice you finally found out that hes awesome!




Guest -> [Deleted] (Apr. 29 2010 8:53:59)

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por medio -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 12:28:31)

Dani Mendez (de Moron) played with Miguel Cortes for Arcangel's Ropavieja - it's one of my favourites over the last couple of years.

Not sure which one of those two were the main architect for the incredible compas that's in the album. Of course much of that probably was due to Arcangel too I guess.

Does anyone else enjoy Arcangel or is it just me? [8|]




Doitsujin -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 12:36:10)

quote:

Does anyone else enjoy Arcangel or is it just me?


If he wouldnt have the voice of a 14 years old girl I would say he sings pretty interesting and always has grea tguitarists at his side. I often give him a try coz of the awesome guitarists but I always have to click him away coz his voice is so wimp-ish... :./ So sad...




jg7238 -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 13:03:31)

Doit, I only became a foro member last year. But that's pretty nice you had a workshop with him.




quote:

Dani de Moron... tststs... I told you about this guy years ago when I had a workshop with him. Hes actually Daniel Mendez.




Doitsujin -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 14:08:07)

It was one of best workshops I´ve ever had... He teached the most in the shortest time. ^^ Hes still young and this time he was...even younger..and we asked him for "play this, play that"... and he played very much on tape for us. (^___^) Complete compositions like this long slow bulerias in weird tuning with a nice libre beginning.. ah..yes I forgot.. he just won the bienal with this piece together with some dancers... Awesome. I fell in love with this compo.




Ricardo -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 14:14:21)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ailsa

Oh right, it's actually Solea, not SpB? My ears deceive me! I've got some old recordings of Solea which are quite fast and it's easy to confuse them. Has romerito got it? He's a bit of flamenco academic, I wouldn't be surprised [:D]


We talked about this in an old thread. When it comes to guitar or dance, the speed and groove tell you if it is "solea por buleria", not what is being sung necessarily. There is no cante called "solea por buleria". That is more an "aire" of the overall interp of what could be several styles of solea (Alcala juaquin 1 2 3, jerez frijones 2, Cadiz mellizo, Triana, etc) or buleria larga, buleria corta etc etc....

So when someone is asking for which cante, the speed or key the guitar plays in is secondary and should not influence your "guess".[;)]




Ailsa -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 29 2010 15:21:17)

[&o][&o] *sigh* I still have so much to learn.....




Guest -> [Deleted] (Apr. 29 2010 16:18:32)

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Ricardo -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 30 2010 5:44:29)

quote:

Although this is resolved on THIS FORO I have to say that I disagree. One of my teachers (same age as Manolo, few years older than Paco) has stated on several occasions that there was a difference in the past. That has no bearing on current practice but it should NOT be asserted as fact without some qualification. Same thing for Alegrias and Bulerias por Solea. Historically it was more than key that differentiated them. Not from my mouth...


Dude...[8|]. Ok I am totally not trying to say your teacher is wrong, but it is hard to get at what you really mean by talking about it with no demo. Check my accomp of Moneo here. I specifically did two versions to show the aire is different with the guitar. But of course I can only play like MYSELF![:D] If you could possible do a version that adds to what I demo here, it could clear up this "historical difference" of aires your teacher talks about. I mean a clear demo that there could be a clear and obvious difference even though we have the same tempo and key.

What I am saying is, my first example por medio it's ok if folks think of it as "solea por buleria" right off. Norman can go through show us what each cante is cuz I honestly don't know the names for them all. My second example most would say it is "Solea", and I am saying it is because of the way I play por arriba. Even though he is singing "bulerias por solea". I think that is fine too. But maybe it is just MY playing that is the problem and you could do a better demo to show the detail that would make the aire different, more decisive "Solea" vs a "solea por buleria".

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=124692&mpage=10&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1&key=

PS I dont' mean this like a guitar challenge. If you can't do your own version, (or get your teacher to demo it [;)]), then how about simply point us to an historical recording that shows it clearly. Cuz so far, I don't see in my investigation and experience that the guitar HAD in the past a specific aire that would not be influenced MAINLY by the tempo or the key.

Ricardo




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Ricardo -> RE: Dani de Moron (Apr. 30 2010 12:27:22)

quote:

If you had been playing in E (relatively) I bet you would have caught it which again brings up the question, does key matter?


I did do it in E (por arriba) the third and 4th posts, after I did Por medio. Probably I accompanied more or less the same, but overall it sounds different because of the key. EDIT (Ok I see what you mean like in the first letra I do resolve 4,5,6 to E in the Arriba example, where por medio I chose to let the Bb ring for those 3 beats.)

And so somebody else's upload accompanying the same cante would help better then talking about it. If my resolutions ever seem "late" it is because I am playing it very safe by following the singer rather then anticipating, because if you follow the long thread from the beginning, I was making a point to record after as few takes as possible, so not to make an "arrangement" for the singing, since in practice with live singer the art of accomp is about following, not working it all out. Hard to do when playing with a recording rather then a live person.

I think this cut was from the sabor de jerez 3 family collection (Morena, Zambo, Moneo mostly bulerias), but I am not sure. Anyway the guitar free track was loaded by Florian I think on page 8. It would be cool if you have the teacher do it, or show you specifically how he would accompany that track to produce a different "aire" then what I was doing, as a comparison. To be clear, that would mean uploading TWO different versions in the SAME key, one with aire of "solea" (right or wrong) and the other aire of Solea por buleria, showing they are different, yet same key and same tempo. I would not care if both uploads are Arriba or both are pro medio, but they need to be the same key in order to understand the subtle differences.

Ricardo




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Guest -> [Deleted] (Apr. 30 2010 14:11:12)

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Ricardo -> RE: Dani de Moron (May 1 2010 9:07:15)

quote:

It is not your experience or knowledge we are discussing, but the possibility of different practices in the past that have either died out or are are not as popular.


Well, as a never ending student myself, I would actually like to learn these details and implement them or at least be able to listen out for them in old recordings.

quote:

That would be great but probably unlikely. But I'll try to get him to go for it.


At least have him teach YOU some details about it so you can show us with your own demo OR give us an old recording example that shows these "lost" details of aire. I don't think it's too much to ask him, and I think it is real important and interesting.

quote:

Anyway, another thing that I noticed you did not do but that does get done is accenting the 12 in such a way that it seems like the beginning instead of the ending.


I know what you mean, and I honestly thought I DID do it quite a few times, but true not always. Both in the por medio and in the Arriba versions. Especially when the compas of the singing feels "crossed" I noticed myself wacking the 12 pretty hard to keep grounded myself. But the slow tempo might make it feel like an ending accent to the outside listener? I don't know, but try playing it yourself and you will see what I mean. It is uncomfortably slow to feel as "buleria" throughout, at least for me, but there are a couple spots it works fine. Anyway that is why I felt more comfortable playing Arriba then por medio with this, because my personal toque has issues with doing por medio real slow. I think it is a mental thing on my part since I am not used to it. But all the old players played por medio fast all the time too so???

quote:

When I have chosen to play por medio he without fail screams that I am playing solea por buleria, regardless of tempo.

We have to ask why his perception is such that those tonos por medio scream SxB and not solea.


I honestly feel it is because like I say, the key gives most of the "aire" we are talking about that makes a difference. So in that sense I sort of agree with him, but at the same time I personally don't feel that the difference is "wrong" to do. Likewise, nowadays you can play solea in a number of weird tonalities with open tunings and such that produce new exotic "aire". But perhaps the dance has learned through the years that when guitarists play "por medio" they tend to increase the speed because it is more comfortable to do so because of the details of the toque. And we know how dancers get when you don't keep the tempo where they want it![;)] So pehaps he hears the key and thinks "uh oh, I dont' want that toque for THIS solea!!" because of past experience.

Anyway I experienced the same exact problem with one dancer who was not so old either. But she wanted a "slow-lea" so again the only thought came to me was her fear we would all speed up along the way because of the toque. But who knows.

Ricardo




mezzo -> RE: Dani de Moron (Nov. 21 2010 13:29:09)

I fell off my chair! This guy is outstanding...
the singer is not bad too [;)]





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