Manuel Rodriguez (Full Version)

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Message

password -> Manuel Rodriguez (Apr. 25 2010 12:19:43)

Hi All,
I'm totally new to flamenco although my dad has played for many years. I'm thinking of purchasing a flamenco guitar. My dad used to own a 1972 Manuel Reyes - I remember that as having a good tone. Surfing the net I've recently noticed the Manuel Rodriguez Jr Santos flamenca negra, distributed by zavaletas@earthlink.net I wonder if any of you would recommend this guitar maker? Do you think it would be likely to match the Reyes? The price would total approximately £1400 not including postage - seems reasonable to me. Would love to know what anyone thinks.
Yours,
Dan



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Manuel Rodriguez (Apr. 25 2010 17:06:07)

Manuel Reyes Sr. had a reputation as one of the handful of greatest flamenco makers of the 20th century. A friend of mine had a 1970s Reyes that was (probably still is) a remarkable instrument.

Wood is a variable material. Great luthiers learn to account for its variability, consistently producing outstanding instruments. But it takes time to individually craft each instrument. That, and the luthier's reputation account for the high price commanded by an established master craftsman.

At the price point of the Manuel Rodriguez Jr. you can't expect as much individual attention to each instrument, much less the participation of a world class established luthier. If the instruments are high quality, you should expect some variability. I say "if high quality" because one way of assuring uniform output is to make them all bad by overbuilding them.

Zavaleta's is a reputable operation. James Greenberg, the owner, is honest and reliable. You can expect the instruments he sells to be worth the money. But no, you can't expect a $2,750 guitar to match a Manuel Reyes Sr. now selling for $15,000 or more, when you can find one.

RNJ



password -> RE: Manuel Rodriguez (Apr. 26 2010 9:29:59)

Hi Richard,
Thanks for the information - very helpful.
Dan



Ricardo -> RE: Manuel Rodriguez (Apr. 26 2010 10:15:00)

quote:

Manuel Reyes Sr. now selling for $15,000 or more, when you can find one.


Try 25 to $30,000.[;)]



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Manuel Rodriguez (Apr. 26 2010 13:07:01)

quote:

Try 25 to $30,000


Well, that's certainly more than $15,000!

I haven't tried to buy or sell a collector's item guitar during the current economic down turn. I shipped via UPS a mint '82 Arcangel Fernandez blanca and a '73 Romanillos from Hawaii to Texas last January, when I moved from a tiny island in the Central Pacific back to Austin. For insurance purposes I asked the guy who appraised them when I bought them ten years ago what he thought they were worth. He opined that if I tried to sell them last January I wouldn't get much more than I paid for them.

So high priced guitars actually went down in value with the recession just like almost everything else, including the US dollar. As you know, the asking price is not necessarily what ends up being paid.

The appraiser is a well known luthier and former professional flamenco guitarist whose business is in Chicago--that pretty well identifies him. If I ever got into a lawsuit over a guitar, he's the guy I'd want to testify for me.

I also shipped a '67 Ramirez 1a blanca and a '91 spruce/Brazilian Contreras doble tapa via UPS, and an Arturo Huipe cedar/cocobolo via US Mail.

The appraiser told me some interesting info about shipping guitars. He said the shippers, UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. will charge you the usual fees to insure a guitar for shipment. But if you file a claim they will say, "Oops, sorry. We don't insure custom made musical instruments, or fragile objects like guitars. It was a mistake to insure your guitar. Here's your money back."

But if no claim is filed, and you try to get your money back, they refuse. On another forum a well known luthier responded that he had taken one of the shippers to small claims court and gotten paid for a damaged instrument. But that was more than two years ago. The Chicago guy assures me that his info is current. Another instance of the SOBs taking over the world.

The Chicago luthier/dealer/appraiser must ship at least a couple dozen guitars per year, probably more.

RNJ



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