Nino Josele's Espanola (Full Version)

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por medio -> Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 0:12:42)

I was expecting a bit more after reading his interview, bit disappointed at what I heard.

I know there was a thread somewhere already about this but I just wanted to vent my disappointment.

Maybe after few more listens I might like it a a bit more.

I'm just not that much into brass sections really...

[:)]



Doitsujin -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 3:48:23)

You´re welcome. I was disappointed too. Very much easy listening and repetitive tracks on this CD.
I guess many flamenco artists wanna take some pieces of the Jazz-cake to get more gigs and a broader audience.

But after thinking about what have been made already in flamenco music... The only way to go further is to mix flamenco with other genres because it would be boring to produce i.e. more standard Soleas...



Ron.M -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 5:07:01)

That's only because you guys are living in the past and stuck in your own time warp and won't allow Flamenco to develop. [;)][:D]

cheers,

Ron



gj Michelob -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 5:19:29)

quote:

because it would be boring to produce i.e. more standard


Hold on to that thought, amigo... until the composition challenge entries are released[;)]



Arash -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 5:58:41)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin


But after thinking about what have been made already in flamenco music... The only way to go further is to mix flamenco with other genres because it would be boring to produce i.e. more standard Soleas...


lets see how Diego del Morais SOLO CD will be.

i guess (or i hope) the trend should be this kind of stuff (not mix too much with other things, too much orchestra, etc....but play pure flamenco (jazz influence is ok and good) with your own style and seperate yourself from others)



XXX -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 7:22:55)

i guess Rondena as palo is owned by Paco. Somehow every Rondena sounds like a tribute to him lol.
Anyways as i see the bulerias are recorded with drums and no palmas. Normally i love drums, there are good examples. But without palmas? Makes no sense to me. Regarding the musical ideas, some good ones in it, but mostly "easy listening flamenco". I think we have lost Nino Josele to the dark side. [:(]



Doitsujin -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 7:45:57)

quote:

Anyways as i see the bulerias are recorded with drums and no palmas. Normally i love drums, there are good examples. But without palmas?


Well, in the middle of the bulerias trumpets and some other instruments take over.. Like Gerardos Jazzpana. I must admit that I dont dislike the whole CD. The Seguiryas is very good and some other things.

I never thought it would happen to me... Im Nino Josele fan but this CD is too modern or at least to far from flamenco for my taste... I think my "time warp" starts exactly now. [:D]

Nino Josele is a very hard example.. since he went on tour with Paco he changed his playing a lot. Now he sounds mostly like Paco... IMO thats a mess because his CD "Nino Josele" was innovative and unique. I loved this style of Josele. I cant stand this copy of Paco-aire. Very sad...

And the list goes on.. The next CD of Tomatito will be with orchestra..and I dont like orchestra in flamenco.. :./ So,...nothing good comes from Tomate...

Paco already went ugly with cositas buenas..

And 2 days ago I was at a Gerardo Nunez concert and he turned out to have a serious injured index finger. The whole gig, not arpegios, no picados, no tremolos.... only thumb and all compositions simplified (i.e. the vals from the encuentro book..without arpegios..could you imagine? Also the spb from the encuentro book..no arpegios at all..aome parts sounded odd..)..instead of arpegios strumming etc. That hurt so much to watch..such a fabulous (if not the most fabulous guitarist nowadays ) injured.
I watched a video of him playing at festival de Jerez last year and I saw the same. i-finger spread away and no usage. Only rasguados seem to work for this finger. Man..thats the worst news I got this year. Man! ****! I hope he recovers. If not, modern flamenco guitar lost one of the most innovative guys.

Im hoping for good compositions of the composition challenge! [;)]



Arash -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 8:07:28)

this is my favourite Josele , and deniz, no palmas [;)]




Doitsujin -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 8:09:01)

Exactly Arash mine, too. But this time is over.... [:(][:(][:(][:(]



Arash -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 8:16:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

Exactly Arash mine, too. But this time is over.... [:(][:(][:(][:(]


i guess we are something like "oldschools of the modern" fraction [:D]
(not to be confused with the other fractions though!) [:-]



fevictor -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 8:17:40)

quote:

Paco already went ugly with cositas buenas..


Really? I disagree. I really liked that CD! I just heard La Española and I have to agree that it is too jazzy, but nice none the less.

Vic



Arash -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 8:23:46)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fevictor

quote:

Paco already went ugly with cositas buenas..


Really? I disagree. I really liked that CD! I just heard La Española and I have to agree that it is too jazzy, but nice none the less.

Vic


i agree. cositas buenas is one of my favourites from paco.
first time i heard it, i was a little "surprised" and needed to "understand" it, but then i really liked it a lot !



fevictor -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 8:30:19)

quote:

first time i heard it, i was a little "surprised" and needed to "understand" it, but then i really liked it a lot !


Couldn't agree more. And not just with Paco's later CDs, but with lots of others that I didn't really care for in the beginning and now I really like. I think that the more I learn about Flamenco the more open I become to modern playing. I don't think that I will ever like orchestra music in Flamenco or even multiple guitars like with Al Di Meola and John Mclaughlin, but you never know!



XXX -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 9:38:00)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin
Paco already went ugly with cositas buenas..


Admin please ban this guy! [:D] Moron [8|] jk
The only track i didnt like on Cositas is the Tientos with trumpet. I mean trumpet is just too much for me. One big musical turn off.

Arash, nice video! The track with drums i had in mind is Gitanos del agua by Rafael Cortes. I listened to it again, something with the rhythm is just so much better done than the drums on Ninos CD. There he accents the buleria as rumba, its too symmetrical in terms of rhythm for me.



Ron.M -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 9:50:01)

quote:

I mean trumpet is just too much for me. One big musical turn off.


Disagree....

(Never say NEVER...)

This is Mike Figgis himself playing trumpet in his own film "Flamenco Women"...

Personally I find it tremendous and entirely and tastefully in context...

(Viejin main guitar)





yohan -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 10:05:04)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin
Paco already went ugly with cositas buenas..


Admin please ban this guy! [:D] Moron [8|] jk
The only track i didnt like on Cositas is the Tientos with trumpet. I mean trumpet is just too much for me. One big musical turn off.

Arash, nice video! The track with drums i had in mind is Gitanos del agua by Rafael Cortes. I listened to it again, something with the rhythm is just so much better done than the drums on Ninos CD. There he accents the buleria as rumba, its too symmetrical in terms of rhythm for me.

agree! cositas buenas is a masterpiece, and paco is always changing, in a good way



Elie -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 10:12:21)

quote:

cositas buenas is a masterpiece

Totally .
it's one of my favorite albums of all time ..
Specially the Bulería -> *Que Venga el Alba* with Camarón's voice I never get bored of it [:D]



Mike_Kinny -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 10:24:28)

quote:

i agree. cositas buenas is one of my favourites from paco.
first time i heard it, i was a little "surprised" and needed to "understand" it, but then i really liked it a lot !

So whenever you are a little "surprised" you need to "understand"? [:D]

Anything coming from Paco has to be good, if not then it's your fault that you don't "understand"?
I bet you are still a little "surprised" listening to cositas malos but pretend otherwise to feel like a good flamenco soldier. [:D]



Mike_Kinny -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 10:27:26)

quote:

this is my favourite Josele , and deniz, no palmas

The beginning was good but then a good way from the end turned into a broken record. [:D]



Mike_Kinny -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 10:39:36)

quote:

The only track i didnt like on Cositas is the Tientos with trumpet. I mean trumpet is just too much for me. One big musical turn off.

Arash, nice video! The track with drums i had in mind is Gitanos del agua by Rafael Cortes. I listened to it again, something with the rhythm is just so much better done than the drums on Ninos CD. There he accents the buleria as rumba, its too symmetrical in terms of rhythm for me.

You are beginning to sound too sensitive.[:D]
"No palmas no sense", "Trumpet is too much for me", "not too symmetrical" Not this not that, what do you want. [:D] This is not babysitting. [:D][:D]



Arash -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 10:48:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike_Kinny

quote:

i agree. cositas buenas is one of my favourites from paco.
first time i heard it, i was a little "surprised" and needed to "understand" it, but then i really liked it a lot !

So whenever you are a little "surprised" you need to "understand"? [:D]

Anything coming from Paco has to be good, if not then it's your fault that you don't "understand"?
I bet you are still a little "surprised" listening to cositas malos but pretend otherwise to feel like a good flamenco soldier. [:D]



i don't like everything from paco, i could list many pieces from him which i heard only once.
and no, it doesn't have to be good just because its from paco.

as for cositas buenas: i could describe more like this:

years ago, when i heard a bulerias or an Alegrias for the first time ever, i was
suprised, i didn't know what to do with it, all i could "understand" till that time
was rumba stuff. but after a while i somehow understood and then started to like the
other palos, then finally loved them.

so kind of same feeling with cositas buenas, except that this time it was the compositions , way of playing, etc.
and not the palos as whole.

i really like it now. why should i lie? just because its Paco?

so, Mr. Kinny, no , i don't say this just because we are talking about him.

anyway, coming from you , the bitter paco enemy, such remarks are no surprise [:D]



Mike_Kinny -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 10:55:48)

quote:

anyway, coming from you , the bitter paco enemy, such remarks are no surprise


i don't dislike everything from paco, i could list many pieces from him which i heard many times.
and no, it doesn't have to be bad just because its from paco. [:D]



Mike_Kinny -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 11:01:08)

quote:

i could list many pieces from him which i heard only once.

While we are at it could you name a few of those Paco pieces you didn't like after listening only once?



Arash -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 11:01:56)

quote:

i don't dislike everything from paco, i could list many pieces from him which i heard many times. and no, it doesn't have to be bad just because its from paco


thats a good start. you are making progress.

you should listen more to cositas buenas.

first you will be surprised, then you will understand it, and finally like it [:D]



Arash -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 11:05:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike_Kinny

quote:

i could list many pieces from him which i heard only once.

While we are at it could you name a few of those Paco pieces you didn't like after listening only once?


why should i ?
i prefer to talk about the things i like!

[:)]



XXX -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 11:06:30)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike_Kinny
what do you want


I want Pacos new album.
I dont know but i have the feeling that this time i will like it from the first second.



Mike_Kinny -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 11:11:07)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike_Kinny

quote:

i could list many pieces from him which i heard only once.

While we are at it could you name a few of those Paco pieces you didn't like after listening only once?


why should i ?
i prefer to talk about the things i like!

[:)]


You can't name even one. I mean not that in reality there isn't any (cositas malos comes to mind [:D]) but not in your little reality. [:D]



Arash -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 11:19:55)

quote:

You can't name even one. I mean not that in reality there isn't any (cositas malos comes to mind ) but not in your little reality.


why should i talk about the pieces from paco which i don't like?

would you get some kind of satisfaction out of it ? lol

lets say, you compose a piece and upload it to the foro, and if shouldn't like it, why i should i mention it explicitly?
in such a case, i prefer to write nothing in that thread at all !

and lets be honest, you know that deep inside, you are a huge paco fan.
you just don't know it yet and struggle against it.
let it go. resistance is futile.

[:D]



Mike_Kinny -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 11:20:30)

quote:


I want Pacos new album.
I dont know but i have the feeling that this time i will like it from the first second.

Man what's this Paco mania? Isn't there enough albums from first class guitarists? So many that you have to stop all your other activities to maybe reach to listen to all of them. What's it that Paco has but other good guitarists don't have nowadays? It's more like the other way round.

Jose antonio Rodriguez, Manolo Franco, Flavio Rodriguez (have you listened to his latest album. It's lovely.), Jason Mcguire, Adam del Monte, ....



Mike_Kinny -> RE: Nino Josele's Espanola (Apr. 25 2010 11:25:06)

quote:

and lets be honest, you know that deep inside, you are a huge paco fan.

You caught me here. [:D][:D]



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