making a silent guitar! (Full Version)

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yohan -> making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 1:26:48)

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Ron.M -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 3:32:25)

Hi Yohan,

Not a Luthier I'm afraid..

I think the back will still resonate to a good extent.

Also it's a lot of work!

My experiment would be to slide the saddle bone (plastic) out and fit a piece of rubber strip in there, then file the bone down to suit.

Or even fill the entire slot with rubber and just glue a strip of plastic on top to carry the strings.

Not silent, but the sound will be dramatically reduced for practising late at night without making too much noise.

Personally, I just slide a piece of foam strip under the strings near the bridge.
It's only about 5mm wide so doesn't interfere with your RH.

The guitar's sound is reduced considerably and the advantage is you can use your regular guitar.
Also the sound is very percussive (though quiet) so it really lets you hear the even-ness of rasgueado or alzapua strokes (or even picado etc).

If I need it still quieter, then I just put in a bigger strip of foam.

cheers,

Ron



Anders Eliasson -> [Deleted] (Apr. 22 2010 3:57:43)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 22 2010 3:58:20



bhandras -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 4:00:55)

Hey Yohan,

just cut a dish sponge in half, and put that under the strings close to the bridge. It will not be completely silent but good enough for home use. I started to use this "technique" recently and now I can exercise in the night [8D]



Argaith -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 4:34:53)

Unfortunately, due to my circumstances I have always had to play silently!

In the beginning I didn't know about the spong trick. Therefore I had to play very soft and this resulted in lack of strength in my right hand.

I was over the moon when my teacher introduced me to the piece of spong! I still do my fairly-late-evening practices using the spong and no one complains
[:)]



Arash -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 4:41:11)

haha, you spongebobs ! [:D]



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gj Michelob -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 6:58:51)

quote:

My experiment would be to slide the saddle bone (plastic) out and fit a piece of rubber strip in there, then file the bone down to suit.

Or even fill the entire slot with rubber and just glue a strip of plastic on top to carry the strings.

Not silent, but the sound will be dramatically reduced for practising late at night without making too much noise.


Most strings and winds have their own “sordina” (from “sordo” Italian for “deaf”). For Cellos and Violins it consists of a piece of rubber shaped as a large version of the slotted nut. Placed and fitted under the strings near the bridge, it will nearly mute the strings.

Guitars can’t be as loud as to require one, but flamenco does provide the exception and an excellent excuse to “invent” one.

Maybe some of the luthiers here, with artistic imagination could forge one matching the Cejilla’s colors and shape?



yohan -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 9:57:18)

Thanks I did experiment a little bit with sponge and rubber things, but its not ideal.
And maybe its a lot of work but I like that! I think its fun to make a silent guitar.
I would like to get rid of the soundboard first, is it possible to do that? and how can I do that?



gj Michelob -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 12:41:37)

Of course you could buy, or make something similar to this "sinsonido" by Aria:
http://www.guitarsalon.com/product.php?productid=27



Jeff Highland -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 12:53:36)

stuff it with a towel



estebanana -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 13:04:18)

I want to know what Anders deleted.

Anyway. Try making the saddle out of a chunk of some kind of rubber strip or anything soft, but still hard enough to carry the strings.

Then pack the inside of the guitar with foam peanuts used for packing fragile items. Cram them in there with enough force to fill the lower bout so the back and top do not vibrate. When you get the guitar packed with foam peanuts duct tape the sound hole shut.

You should have something that feels kind of like a guitar that is totally silent.



RobJe -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 14:07:34)

I can only think of two reasons why anyone might want a silent guitar.
1. A silent guitar stops you annoying other people while enabling you to get pleasure out playing and improve by practice. Sponge or possibly rubber is probably the best as it has least effect on the feel of the guitar. A solid dead guitar doesn’t give pleasure or the necessary feedback to improve your playing.
2. The second reason? OK I am struggling a bit here but here goes.
In the early Showa period (1925-1989), people gathered to listen to the sound of the bloom of a lotus flower at Sinobazu-no-ikepond in the early summer. (The pond is in Ueno Park and is one of the most famous ponds in Tokyo.) However, the frequency of that sound is approximately 9-16 Hz. As we normally hear sounds within a frequency range from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz, people were unable to actually hear the sound of the bloom of a lotus flower. But they loved and wanted to listen to that phantom sound. The experience was a kind of communal auditory hallucination (from Soundscape Newsletter No 9). So bring on the silent guitars – let’s have concerts for silent guitars – dancers with sponge soles on their shoes – singers with mouths taped up.
Rob



Anders Eliasson -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 22 2010 23:34:12)

quote:

I want to know what Anders deleted.


Why?[:D]

Your idea of cutting away the soundboard is a BAD one.
If you want to practice flamenco tecnique, you need the soundboard to do golpes, and to put you thumb on.
Flamenco is about the right hand being in touch with the soundboard.
Thats why we install such a big tapplate.



yohan -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 23 2010 0:46:13)

@anders
Yes I want to replace after the bridge thing is done, I will try make another drawing.
@gj
thanks looks like the yamaha:
this is what I had in mind:


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Anders Eliasson -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 23 2010 2:13:21)

Ok, good idea. Go ahead and lets have some photos when you´ve finished it.

Dont play it to much though (and play to much with a sponge either) You loose control of tone.



at_leo_87 -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 23 2010 7:20:36)

quote:


Most strings and winds have their own “sordina” (from “sordo” Italian for “deaf”). For Cellos and Violins it consists of a piece of rubber shaped as a large version of the slotted nut. Placed and fitted under the strings near the bridge, it will nearly mute the strings.

Guitars can’t be as loud as to require one, but flamenco does provide the exception and an excellent excuse to “invent” one.

Maybe some of the luthiers here, with artistic imagination could forge one matching the Cejilla’s colors and shape?


i found this thing here, i have no experience with it but it looks like it could work. it would be cooler looking if it had some ornate handle


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Anders Eliasson -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 23 2010 7:40:19)

I couldnt play with it. It would get in the way on some thumb tecniques.



johnguitars -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 24 2010 5:48:28)

I modified my Yamaha Silent guitar to include two pieces of mahogany for golpes. I also used piezo sensors to the backs of the upper and lower mahogany pieces that go into a preamp that was added to the back of the guitar. This is all fed back into the aux input of the Yamaha so I can adjust the volume of the golpes seperate from sound of the guitar. Here is the original post:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=86778&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=silent&tmode=&smode=&s=#87483

I worked in a factory and the sound levels were high. I would play this on my breaks and could hear everything inspite of 60 to over 100 db ambient sound levels.



gj Michelob -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 24 2010 6:37:14)

quote:

@gj
thanks looks like the yamaha:
this is what I had in mind:


Exactly. Both Yamaha and Sansonido models provide both the desired muting and portability for travel. The “sansonido” has the advantage of a more minute size, as it is limited to the length of a fretboard. I am tempted to get one so play it during those long flights, returning from Europe or Asia. It would seem it may fit within the narrow boundaries of a business class seat and perhaps even in couch, particularly if by the window, with some minor and uncomfortable adjustments to one’s playing position (more vertically I would imagine, almost like a Cello). Endless entertainment through arpeggios. scales and chords, far superior to any miniature-screen movie or to conversing with a stranger in a bowling shirt about how frequently he flies to Detroit….

At_Leo: did you custom-fit that one or find it somewhere for sale? It looks perfect, but it could be thinner, much thinner in fact a third of it would suffice in order to avoid interfering with one's right hand (as Anders pointed out).



at_leo_87 -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 24 2010 6:53:07)

quote:

At_Leo: did you custom-fit that one or find it somewhere for sale? It looks perfect, but it could be thinner, much thinner in fact a third of it would suffice in order to avoid interfering with one's right hand (as Anders pointed out).


hey gj, it's not actually mine, i just found a picture of it here:
http://en.woodbrass.com/POCK+MUTE+FOR+CLASSICAL+GUITAR

it looks like something that could be a diy project. i agree, it doesn't need to be so big unless that adds to the muting effect.



Ron.M -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 24 2010 7:13:29)

Damn...Only guitarists would be nuts enough to pay over €22 (inc shipping) for a little piece of foam rubber. [:D]

The gizmo market is clearly pretty lucrative!

How about a "golpe mute" as well?..(thin piece of rubber sheet which sticks to the tap plate) €39.99 [:D]

cheers,

Ron



gj Michelob -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 24 2010 7:40:56)

quote:

Damn...Only guitarists would be nuts enough to pay over €22 (inc shipping) for a little piece of foam rubber.


I wonder if anyone bought (into) it...[:D][:D][:D]

At_Leo... yes it could be a pretty project with some creativity I am sure you could forge some attractive string-muting-device.



yohan -> [Deleted] (Apr. 27 2010 2:51:31)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 18 2011 17:50:34



Exitao -> RE: making a silent guitar! (Apr. 30 2010 9:49:12)

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

quote:


Most strings and winds have their own “sordina” (from “sordo” Italian for “deaf”). For Cellos and Violins it consists of a piece of rubber shaped as a large version of the slotted nut. Placed and fitted under the strings near the bridge, it will nearly mute the strings.

Guitars can’t be as loud as to require one, but flamenco does provide the exception and an excellent excuse to “invent” one.

Maybe some of the luthiers here, with artistic imagination could forge one matching the Cejilla’s colors and shape?


i found this thing here, i have no experience with it but it looks like it could work. it would be cooler looking if it had some ornate handle
http://en.woodbrass.com/images/woodbrass/POCK.JPG


Heh. That looks a bit like that thing girls use to separate their toes when they get pedicures.

In fact, if you go to the dollar store you can see them. I think there are a few products at the dollar store of similar materials... buy something like it and cut it so it fits snugly under the strings at the bridge. Most golpeadores cover that and now it doesn't get in the way of the hand.



As for the silent guitar... isn't it really just an electric? Couldn't one scavenge some crap electrics to make what they need?



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