stage presence (Full Version)

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at_leo_87 -> stage presence (Apr. 19 2010 19:43:12)

a couple recent threads have gotten me to think about the concept of stage presence.

what is it and how can us guitarists work on it and improve?

do you guys like to talk to the audience between songs? what do you say? do you make eye contact? where do you look besides your fretboard? do you ever climb onto tables and stage dive? smash your guitar? what other things can you do besides play well to improve the overall performance?



KMMI77 -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 19 2010 21:06:07)

This is an interesting topic. I guess we have to look into what type of environment we want to create for the audience. Is it serious? Is it fun? Is it subtle? Is it a Spectacular show? etc.. Then think about a process that will encourage people to enter that environment.

I think that finding a way of communicating in a confident, open and honest way is a good start. Trying to be someone that you are not always looks bad IMO although there are some people who have the ability to do this and achieve a lot. I need to work on this stuff.



KMMI77 -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 19 2010 21:07:20)

quote:

where do you look besides your fretboard?


At the prettiest girls.[:D][:D]



NormanKliman -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 19 2010 23:12:34)

Think of people who you enjoy listening to when they speak, and think of other people who you don't enjoy listening to. Politicians, teachers, people at work... Why do you like listening to some but not to others?

Flamenco has some serious moments, but it's a good idea to keep things open and friendly with your body language and facial expression. Hey, as if you were having a good time...

I contend that most people get bored with solo guitar, even a long falseta when there's cante, baile, etc. I'm not defending that kind of reaction but I think it's the truth. So it's probably a good idea to be expressive when you play, to give people something to watch while they listen. Personally, I don't like to see guitarists grimace too much: eyes shut tight, clenched jaw, baring teeth, as if something horrible were happening! [:D] In that sense, Antonio Moya and Diego de Morón are very different onstage.



XXX -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 0:47:59)

I think as Solo guitarrist, you can do it like this [:D]


I often wonder how they can be so calm. Im sure they train this separately? Does somebody know this strange habit of moving the lower part of your mouth? Its awful :-/



Pimientito -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 1:56:02)

I kind of think stage presence is mostly about being confident and looking as if you are enjoying yourself. A lot of it comes from overcoming nerves. If you are on a big stage you mainly have spotlights on you so you can only see the first couple of rows in the audience. That's often much easier than a smaller situation.

Someone made the comment a while ago that if you went to see a dentist and a nervous looking sweaty guy limply shook your hand and then started talking about the fact that he still learning and wasn't as good as some other dentists....you would probably run a mile.

If you are visibly very nervous on stage , it will make your audience feel uncomfortable. There are some things that really help you to feel less nervous.
Here are some pieces of advice from someone with over 15 years of gigs behind them.

1. Before leaving the house to the gig make sure you make a check list
Spare strings, mic cables, nail files, nail herdener, extension cable...oh yes and the guitar etc. Be prepared. Take pain killers and toilet roll with you if necessary. Even if you don't need them you will feel better about having them handy. If you sweat a lot take a handkerchief with you (not a pack of tissues)
2. Always make sure you arrive at a gig early.
3. Make sure you are clean and well dressed with polished shoes and preferably in a suit. This may sound over the top even if you are only playing in a restaurant but I promise that you will feel much more confident about yourself and other people will perceive you so too.
Im sure Flo will back me up on this one...walking on stage in a suit will automatically put you into "stage mode".
Trust me on this one, its really important... Arriving on time and well dressed is 50 per cent of the gig.
4. If I'm nervous about a big gig I have 1 small beer (half pint) before playing. That will often be enough to make you feel calmer without affecting your coordination or make you want to run to the bathroom.
5. Dont chew gum..it really looks bad on stage
6. Remember to smile especially after finishing a piece
7. Start you gig with something simple...something you have played for years and can pull off every time. Dont launch into "la Barrosa" or some Paganini. If you start with something simple and it goes well you will relax later on. You wont be nervous about harder material and you wont go to pieces if you make a minor mistake.
8. If you make a small error, ignore it and keep playing. The worst thing you can do is stop and start again. Even if you miss a section out you can either go round again and put it in or cut the piece short. If you are with a dancer or singer and things are going wrong then switch to playing tapeado on the guitar until you find your place. I guarantee the audience will think its deliberate.
Even if a piece has gone very wrong finish strongly with a big rasgueo or a confident chord. You will still get applause.
9. Remember to bow and say thank you. Dont run off the stage too soon. Enjoy the applause!!! Its really important. Once you learn to enjoy applause you are there.



Arash -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 2:10:00)

great advices pim.
thanks



Pimientito -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 2:25:13)

I would add if you are working with dancers a lot you should be prepared for them too. Jingle told me that he always used to carry, safety pins, a small travel kit with miniature scissors, needle and thread, super glue (crazy glue),hair pins, aspirin and tampons in his guitar case in case a dancer ever came up with an excuse for not being able to go on stage...That's absolutely true. You can fit all that stuff into an old cigarette carton.



XXX -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 2:45:45)

the modern flamenco guitarrist: musical innovator, silent artistic director, and beauty saloon in one unit.



Ailsa -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 5:09:48)

Excellent advice from Pim. I'm not a forgetful person, but last gig I did I forgot to take the cajon, and when I was leaving almost left my guitar there!! Count everything in and out!!

Mistakes: one time I had a complete mind blank and couldn't remember the next bit. So I just went to the final falseta and ended it. No-one noticed. Not even my husband Dave!

Talking to the audience: always - think it helps them see me as just a person who loves guitar. I often say a bit about the piece, where I learnt it, why I like it, that sort of stuff.

Starting: I like to start with Tarantas because it's dramatic, it's something I can play so gives me a bit of confidence, and because it's free it's easier to cover up any mistakes [:D][:D][:D]



guitarristamadrid -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 5:18:11)

**** yeah Leo, I'm glad you brought this up. Stage presence is 50 percent of your show. Why? Cause the music is one way of expressing your personality, and your stage presence is the other way. And as an artist, you better damn well use every means available to you.

And Deniz, you are right for calling out Jesus on his mopey, eyes on the floor style. Bless his heart, he's a great player, but what the hell, Entri has more presence when he tunes the guitar. Several times when I brought friends by to see Jesus play, they almost didn't believe me that he was a well known flamenco artist.

So stage presence. People want it. Give it to them



Arash -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 5:34:05)

yes, but on the other hand, if stage presense is one way of expressing your personality, then stage presense of jesus or similar people is also ok, because thats how they are. maybe some people are depressive, shy, reserved, or whatever.

why should they change their "personality" then ? that would be fake ! and i think also the audience would notice that its fake or not very authentic and that the performer doesn't feel comfortable with what he is doing.

i mean, jesus is not nervous, he is just a reserved guy. thats how he is.

i think thats how things are.
i mean not everyone is like diego de moron or somebody like that.
you can't really change people.



XXX -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 5:38:50)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarristamadrid
Entri has more presence when he tunes the guitar


[:D][:D]

But hey nothing against Jesus, im his biggest fan! [8|] Next to him i would become a hysterical 12 year old boy-band groupie. I wouldnt mind if he (or others) would show up in checked shorts and t-shirt. But i know that others feel different.
I have to control myself to not make very dumb faces wihle playing, and not shaking around the guitar too much...



guitarristamadrid -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 5:55:08)

quote:

but on the other hand, if stage presense is one way of expressing your personality, then stage presense of jesus or similar people is also ok, because thats how they are.


Dude this is a very astute observation, I actually agree with that 100 percent. In all my experience with Jesus he an extremely mellow kinda guy, so you are right, he is just expressing that.



guitarristamadrid -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 5:57:30)

Deniz dude you gotta see Entri play in real life. When he plays bulerias, solea, no one has more stage presence than that guy. I mean, I been seeing these technical monsters like Jony Jimenez play up close on a regular basis for years now, and to be honest, I prefer Entri, with all his scratchy sound and booming notes.

Why? Cause nobody is more flamenco than that guy.



gj Michelob -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 6:53:29)

A valuable list of advices, Pimientito, to treasure in one’s guitar case and read along with a Hail-Mary before a gig or concert.

I would add what Jim Opfer told me last year (and found it imperative a detail): you need to hear yourself playing, so make sure any amplification is set accordingly.



Doitsujin -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 11:48:21)

Is stage presence so important?

Look at Jesus de Rosario. He rocks! But looks like a shy boy on stage... The weird thing is...that is absolutely no prob. [&:]



srshea -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 12:30:59)

Well, what whatever a performer’s natural expressive demeanor happens to be is for the best, I think. If you’re extroverted and outgoing, great. If you feel more comfortable staring at your shoes, fine. There’s always an element of “acting” in even the most naturalistic type of performance, but I think that it still needs to be an accurate reflection of your personality, and trying to push your performance style too far towards a persona that is not genuinely yours is going to come off badly. Best to be yourself and let more and more of yourself come out as you develop your skill and confidence.

One key concept that far too many people don’t have a grasp on is that the level of extra-musical expression you indulge in should be commensurate with your ability to actually back it up with your playing. There are few things more embarrassing than seeing a low level amateur musician hacking their way through a performance, making all kind of pompous “guitar faces”, dramatically shaking their heads, and so on. Think of all the youtube vids of guys playing terribly while making love to the camera with their best (or worst) “maestro” face. Yikes. Yer hands gotta be able to cash the check your face writes.

In a flamenco context I think a real no nonsense approach is best. Let the singers and dancers do all the emoting. The accompanist should be more neutral and just hold everything down. I always think of guys like Cepero and Moraito being ideal in this regard. Supremely confident without being arrogant; a mild relaxed smile; an overall good-natured vibe; delivering the goods, gettin’ the job done.



sig -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 20 2010 13:07:22)

At_Leo,
Great topic! I just played a gig with our dance group on Sat night It was a big charity event and we did 2 numbers, Tangos De Malaga and a Bulerias. It was held at a nice theater and there were approx 300 people there and we were the first performance of the night. I was sitting there with my fellow guitarist before the curtain opened thinking how are we going to be percieved? We never did a gig that was in a big venue before and I wasn't sure what really to do. The stage was of course big and we were a ways from the audience but in the end we decided that we will play like we rehearse, make eye contact with the dancers and the audience if possible, smile and yell out some Jaleos and generally enjoy the experience...

After thinking about it the next day I guess I would say if you are relaxed and enjoying the whole experience the "duende" just seems to take over and everyone gets into it. We got a standing ovation which surpised me and afterwards people came up to us and complimented the performance. I have to say that the blood rushed to my ego Sat night!!
Sig--



at_leo_87 -> RE: stage presence (Apr. 21 2010 15:06:43)

great replies! thanks for chiming in, everyone!

quote:

At the prettiest girls.

do you have a specific technique? ie. wink, blow a kiss, rip shirt open to reveal masculine chest and shoulder hair? [:D]

quote:

I contend that most people get bored with solo guitar, even a long falseta when there's cante, baile, etc. I'm not defending that kind of reaction but I think it's the truth. So it's probably a good idea to be expressive when you play, to give people something to watch while they listen.


i'm starting to find that out for myself. nobody cares about my cool falsetas they just want to see the colorful polka dots. [:(]

quote:

Someone made the comment a while ago that if you went to see a dentist and a nervous looking sweaty guy limply shook your hand and then started talking about the fact that he still learning and wasn't as good as some other dentists....you would probably run a mile.


i think it was the white suit man who said that. excellent tips, pim! i especially like the one about enjoying the applause. i always dart off the stage like a squirrel.

quote:

Jingle told me that he always used to carry, safety pins, a small travel kit with miniature scissors, needle and thread, super glue (crazy glue),hair pins, aspirin and tampons in his guitar case in case a dancer ever came up with an excuse for not being able to go on stage...


oh my, what would my girlfriend say if she saw a tampon in my gig bag. [:D] great tip though, i'm going to start carrying these items.

quote:

Starting: I like to start with Tarantas because it's dramatic, it's something I can play so gives me a bit of confidence, and because it's free it's easier to cover up any mistakes


it's my weapon of choice as an opener as well! save that tricky bulerias mess for later. [:)][:)]

quote:

So stage presence. People want it. Give it to them


yes sir!

quote:

why should they change their "personality" then ? that would be fake ! and i think also the audience would notice that its fake or not very authentic and that the performer doesn't feel comfortable with what he is doing.


well, i guess that's true. but personalities change and develop. if the shy, reserved ones try being a little more open on stage, they might grow to like it and their personality might naturally develop in that direction.

quote:

I have to control myself to not make very dumb faces wihle playing, and not shaking around the guitar too much...


you have to worry about that too? i have to be careful not to flare my nostrils when i play. and the worse, is when i drool on my guitar by accident. [8|][8|]

quote:

Is stage presence so important?


well maybe not for fellow guitarists who know how to listen but for a general audience, i think they need something to keep their attention more.

quote:


I would add what Jim Opfer told me last year (and found it imperative a detail): you need to hear yourself playing, so make sure any amplification is set accordingly.


YES! nothing can be more of a buzzkill! either horrible sound or just not being able to hear yourself. have you bought your new amp yet?

quote:

One key concept that far too many people don’t have a grasp on is that the level of extra-musical expression you indulge in should be commensurate with your ability to actually back it up with your playing.


now you've made me self-conscious. can't i just fake it until i make it? [:D] but yes, i agree. i'm getting sick of all those constipated, diaper rash looks on youtube.

quote:


After thinking about it the next day I guess I would say if you are relaxed and enjoying the whole experience the "duende" just seems to take over and everyone gets into it. We got a standing ovation which surpised me and afterwards people came up to us and complimented the performance. I have to say that the blood rushed to my ego Sat night!!


congratulations on your successful performance, sig! 300 is a lot of people!



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