Meaning of "Por"

Meaning of "Por" (Full Version)

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aammaguiar -> Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 29 2004 19:02:27)
Would someone be so kind as to explain what "por" means. For example "solea por bulerias". Has it got to do with tempo or scale or something else. Is it used for baile only or does it apply to cante as well. Is "solea por bulerias" the only one or is there something like "solea por alegrias", "alegrias por bulerias" etc. And is it used only for the 12 beat cadences like solea, alegrias and bulerias. Would appreciate the education.

Miguel de Maria -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 29 2004 21:10:04)
Por means "for" or "by", roughly.

Jon Boyes -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 30 2004 8:32:10)
To add to what Mike said, it has nothing to do with tempo/scale and is certainly used when discussing accompnaying - whether cante or baile. For example I would say last night I played por tangos at the dance class, mean that last night I accompanied the class playing some tangos. The term is not restricted to the twelve beat palos. Whilst Solea Por Bulerias is best thought of as a style in itself, there is another usage of 'por' that I am unsure of, that I'm sure one of the others will explain, and that's when you start playing in one palo (eg Solea or Alegria) and then speed things up and end with a buleria. I'm not sure whether 'por' is used here?[8\|] Jon

bailoro2000 -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 30 2004 9:43:41)
Por is a bit of a flexible word. It can also mean "of", or "about" in the sense of some of the titles of Camaron's albums for example: Por Tangos, Por Fandangos, Por Solea, Por Bulerias etc etc, where each album is devoted to just one type of palo. Generally it is just used to mean "for". The easist English translation for "Sole por bulerias" is "solea ending in bulerias", where a bulerias or other chico flamenco is played to lighten the mood of the more serious palos and finish in lighter vein.. Jim.

Escribano -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 30 2004 10:15:58)
quote: Por means "for" I understand that "por" means "for" only when "in exchange for something else". Perhaps this is the sense of solea "in exchange" for buleria?

bailoro2000 -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 30 2004 10:24:45)
Which makes the word more flexible still, "por exemplo", por exemplo. Then of course there is "por medio" (-: Jim.

Kate -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 30 2004 13:16:51)
quote: ORIGINAL: bailoro2000 "por exemplo", por exemplo. Jim. Hmm Jim, that would be 'por ejemplo' Kate, playing teacher [;)]

bailoro2000 -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 30 2004 13:50:48)
Por eso, I stand corrected Ma'am (((-: Jim.

Kate -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 30 2004 13:52:01)
quote: ORIGINAL: Escribano quote: Por means "for" I understand that "por" means "for" only when "in exchange for something else". Perhaps this is the sense of solea "in exchange" for buleria? Por means many many things...... Por means 'for' as in "Esta valla es por los conejos" The fence is for the rabbits, as in 'because of' ie 'no podemos salir por la nieve', we cant go out because of the snow. Por also indicates origin or inspiration of an emotion or mental state " Todo por la Patria" or "me fastidia por lo mal que canta" Por can mean by, in passive construction " El suelo estaba cubierta por una alfombra" Por can mean runs on, works by, by means of, as in "Se puede pagar por tarjeta de credito" Por can mean in support of, 'Yo voté por los liberales'. Por can mean exchange for, substitute for, " El dará la clase por mí" distrubution per "tres raciones por persona" Por can mean 'for' when talking about money " un cheque por cien dolares" Por can mean ' to judge by' "por lo visto" which mean apparantly Por can mean in search of, 'Ha ido por agua' He went for water. It also means however, "por fuerte que ustede griten', however loud you shout It's used with various verbs, intersarse por , to be interested in, precocuparse por, to be worried about. It is used in time and means 'in', 'Debío ser por mayo' as in 'it must have been in May'. It also is a preposition of place, all over or throughout. "He viajado por España" as well as in, up to, through, out of, down "Se cayó por la escalera" and is use in conjunction with adverbs of place to denote direction " Por aqui', 'por allí', and in Andalucia 'por aca" It also means 'times' as in '2 por 2 es 4' And can mean something like that as in ' Es abagado o algo por el estilo' 'He's alawyer or dsomething of that ilk. I'm sure theres many many more, these are scribbled notes from my university course, and referenced to a great book Butt and Benjamin's ' Grammar of Modern Spanish". Now I just have to get them right when I speak [:@] Welcome to the wonderful world of Spanish grammar. Kate ps its raining, that'll mean more snow on the mountains.

Guest -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 30 2004 13:56:40)
quote: Kate ps its raining, that'll mean more snow on the mountains. Sunny in Cadiz!!! Great dissertation Kate; how about another one on "para". Spanish is not as easy as it seems, especially when you get mixed up with the flamencos. Sean

Escribano -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 30 2004 13:57:12)
quote: Now I just have to get them right when I speak Thanks! I recall Estela commenting on this as a real killer for non-natives. I look forward to the challenge[;)]

Kate -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 30 2004 14:30:21)
Hey Sean envy you the sunshine, this weather is too British :) Keeps Granada green though. Glad you thought my notes useful. I have some on Para as well, with a note NEVER to shorten it to "pa'" which of course I do all the time now living here and like you with flamencos [&:] so this is pa' ti, odd notes from my student years which dont seem to have helped me all that much Para is use to indicate purpose, object or destination, " Dos gardenias para ti" " Una mesa para dos" "Se preparó para saltar" It also serves an ironic purpose as in "Se abstuvo durante años de fumar y beber para luego morir en un accidente de coche' He gave up fags and booze for years only to die in a car accident. No es para tanto = Its not that serious. Direction after verbs of motion, " ibamos para casa..." we were going home..., "Ya va para viejo" he's getting old now. To indicate advantage, disadvantage usefulness and need. Such as "Fumar es malo para el salud" smoking is bad for the health. " Con esto tenemos para todos" with this we have enough for everybody. 'Es much dinero para tres noches' its a lot of money for three nights, Reaction, response, mood, 'para mí no es justo', doesn;t seem fair to me. No estoy para bromas - i'm not in the mood for jokes. 'for' when it means considering or in view of. " está muy alto para su edad", he's tall for his age. 'to' in certain reflexive verbs "me lo guardo para mi" I;m keeping it to myself 'about' in the meaning of 'on the point of" "estoy para llegar" I'm about to arrive Para used in time, 'para las cinco', by 5 o'clock For 5 days, para 5 días, It also means around and towards,' Estará terminado para finales de Noviembre' It'll be finished by end of Nov. And can mean 'nearly' Voy para cinco años sin fumar. I've gone nearly 5 years without smoking. As well as 'Not enough to' and 'considering how much' " Fue bastante rapido para lo mucho que dicen tardarán' It was quick considering how much they went on that it would be late. A basic distinction between por and para is that para expresses purpoe and destination and por cause or motive. hago esto para ti , I'm doing this for you hago esto por ti, I'm doing this because of you/on your behalf In translation if you can replace 'for' with 'out of or 'because of' then por would be correct. "Lo hago por el dinero." I did it for money. Hope this is helpful as well, interesting to look back a my old notes. Kate

Miguel de Maria -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Nov. 30 2004 16:26:43)
Kate, thanks for the extensive information. It goes to show that the "rules of grammar" are only a small part of the equation, and usage is really key. Just like in English. Or flamenco.

aammaguiar -> RE: Meaning of "Por" (Dec. 1 2004 16:58:26)
Thank you all for the explanations. I think I have a better understanding of the sense of "por" in the flamenco context. Really helps to have the kind of feedback you all sent. Appreciate it.

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