Conde for sale (Full Version)

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Jim Opfer -> Conde for sale (Nov. 28 2004 17:45:59)

OK! I love it but it has to go.

Conde A26, Felipe V shop. Blanca, made in 2001. signed.
Big professional guitar with big sound.
One ding below the bridge otherwise in perfect, mint condition.
£2,400

Similar to guitar here but with different rosette.
http://www.condehermanos.com/a26Clavijero/frente.htm

If you're interested, email for more detail.

Cheers
Jim.



Guest -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 29 2004 16:22:33)

Jim

I cannot understand why you should want to sell a Conde which you consider to be good, just to you want to buy a cheap replacement. It is not easy to find a good guitar in Andalucia for much less than 2000 euros, unless you go to Valencia.

I would be tempted to buy a good Conde for 2,500 pounds, but I have never played a Conde worth the asking price. Keep it.

Suerte

Sean



Jim Opfer -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 29 2004 16:48:45)

quote:

I cannot understand why you should want to sell a Conde which you consider to be good, just to you want to buy a cheap replacement. It is not easy to find a good guitar in Andalucia for much less than 2000 euros, unless you go to Valencia.


Hi Sean,

Reason being I've got 3 very good guitars, El Conde being one.

I have a Maldonado blanca on it's way probably mid February.
In contrast, I want a less expensive guitar for day to day use, one that I don't have to worry about too much lying around the house and I can take out and about. Thought of a Bernal 'Prodigio'? not expensive, mahogany fingerboard, cedar top, lightweight and good fun to play.

El Conde sleeps in his bed most days and that's not good for either of us.

Jim.



Patrick -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 29 2004 17:46:03)

Jim,

I agree fully. That's why I got a negra from Jeff Sigurdson, to use as a day-to-day guitar (dinger). I'd love to play my new Green every day, but I'm just asking for dings. My Tezanos negra is like your Conde, It's so darn nice (and expensive) it doesn’t see the light of day much. I'm thinking of getting a blanca from Sigurdson to use as a dinger as well.

Seems kind of crazy to buy great guitars and not play them though doesn’t it?

Pat



Guest -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 10:07:29)

quote:

Seems kind of crazy to buy great guitars and not play them though doesn’t it?


This is an interesting point Pat. Many people have lots of guitars, but I can only pay attention to 2. What do people do about keeping string in good condition etc, when they have 5 or 6 guitars?

Sean



gerundino63 -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 10:25:00)

Hi !

I think they save them!

And sell them at a better time, I think it is a better investment than the dow-jones!

wood is getting more expensive, manual labour hours are getting more expensive.

Ever looked at the prices of older well known handmade guitars?

Better sit down first....

http://www.guitarsalon.com/store.php?template_id=store_site_a.tpl&item_number=GUFLFERGER1998-03418&render_it=SPEC&spot=img_1&search_string=&product_cat=FL&render_type=&order_by=description_short&back=2&

So, buy a few good ones, save them, and enjoy your pension in the sun in Spain, with you old,
last saved Conde, Reyes, Gerundino, Arcangel, Bellido, Manzanero, Ramirez.......[:D]

Peter



Guest -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 14:02:24)

Peter

When you try to buy a great guitar, it is very expensive. But when you try to sell it, nobody wants to pay NY prices (and they include the commission of the seller, so you get even less).

Sean



Jim Opfer -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 16:57:49)

quote:

Better sit down first....


Hi Peter,

Nice example but don't go for a Gerundino after 97'

Jim.



Jim Opfer -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 17:01:36)

quote:

When you try to buy a great guitar, it is very expensive. But when you try to sell it, nobody wants to pay NY prices (and they include the commission of the seller, so you get even less).


Hi Sean,

My experience is that it depends what you want to sell and how much you expect to get.

Jim.



Jim Opfer -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 17:04:17)

quote:

Seems kind of crazy to buy great guitars and not play them though doesn’t it?


That's it Pat,

Players going mad looking for guitars and players got them sleeping in cases.

Jim.



gerundino63 -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 17:07:18)

You are right about that Jim!



Patrick -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 17:26:52)

Peter,

I think you have to be very careful if you plan to treat any guitar as an investment. Personally, I look at it more like fine artwork. Buy what you like and if the price goes up, so much the better, but don't bet the farm on it.

As you have said, if you are looking at them as investments you better stick to a small group of well known builders. And most of these guys better be dead or close to it! The problem with this is, it would eliminate buying guitars from master builders like Aaron Green and Lester DeVoe. The problem is, guys like Aaron are just young pups. So what's the chance of my Green being worth double what I paid for it in ten years?

I'll bore you with some numbers. If an item doubles in value in ten years, this is equivalent to approximately a 7% return on your money. It has to double in about five years to be equivalent to a 15% return. So you have to ask, what is the chance of that happening?

So what is the likelihood of beating the stock market? Let's get together in Spain in ten years and I'll have the answer for you!

Pat



Patrick -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 17:38:19)

quote:

When you try to buy a great guitar, it is very expensive. But when you try to sell it, nobody wants to pay NY prices (and they include the commission of the seller, so you get even less


Sean,

I agree. I have a Tezanos Perez negra that retails for over $7,000 in the US. I'll make you a deal. Send me a check for $6,900 and I'll have that baby to you in a week!

Now that's for you only, so don't let it get around OK!

Pat



gerundino63 -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 17:55:08)

Hi Patrick!

I agree with you for 100 %.

But it is possible to buy a Ramirez late 70 ths for about 2000 euro, and I think, ( not sure) It is possible to sell it in ten years for 4000 euro.

I have no plans todo so, but if i can buy this kind of guitars for cheaper, let's say 1000-1500 euro, I would be thinking about it.

The date in Spain is accepted![:D][:D]



Patrick -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 18:25:56)

Peter,

The reality in business is, "it's not what you can sell it for, it's what you paid for it". If can buy them right, you can make money or at least break even.

Pat



Jim Opfer -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 19:00:28)

quote:

If can buy them right, you can make money or at least break even.


Pat,

I think the break even thing is right and unless you need to pay your mortgage by trading guitars, seems very fair. Thing is, whilst you've had it you've enjoyed it and if you can break even, you've had the fun for free.

Seems fine to me.

Jim.



Patrick -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 19:17:10)

quote:

Thing is, whilst you've had it you've enjoyed it and if you can break even, you've had the fun for free.


Jim,

That's the way I look at it as well. I just donated my Shelton-Farreta blanca to our local non-profit flamenco society for a fund raising auction. I paid $2,800 for it and could have sold it for about $1,500. I'll get a nice tax break, but it won't be worth $1,500. They sold it for $1,000 at the auction. So everyone came out fine. My wife even mentioned that I had received more than a $1,000 in enjoyment from it in the two years I owned it. When you think about it, it's pretty cheap entertainment.

Pat



Jim Opfer -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 21:12:16)

quote:

I just donated my Shelton-Farreta blanca to our local non-profit flamenco society


Pat,

A gentleman and a scholar, GBY.

Jim.



musicalgrant -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 21:50:12)

I have a 500 pound guitar french polished etc, and made especially for my taste in sound and action. If I brought a Conde it would not be so personal but the name Sounds Good.

I would rather buy a guitar made by a fellow country man who is trying to make a name for himself, than from someone who already has a name! Because you know with the fellow country man he will do his utmost to make you the best guitar he has ever made, whereas with Conde and all those big names, they see an English man, or an American, or a Japanese and think I'll get rid of this guitar they wont know the difference and they aren't famous!! etc, etc,,,

That is my opinion as someone who has not enough pennies to spend on a Conde lol

Cheers Grant



Jim Opfer -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 23:03:40)

quote:

I would rather buy a guitar made by a fellow country man who is trying to make a name for himself


I don't dissagree with that Grant, you did a great thing commissioning your own instrument.

I commissioned a flamenco negra from Stephen Hill of Lewes, built to my requirements and it's a very fine guitar. I had to wait for 16 months and I've had it now for 3 years, very good to start with and continues to get better as time goes by.

If someone wants a good Conde Hermanos from Felipe V, just happens I have one for sale. The price is much lower than the market value and the instrument is first class. Not overly fussed if it stays here, I enjoy it very much, just a pitty it doesn't get out more often.

Jim.



PacoPaella -> RE: Conde for sale (Nov. 30 2004 23:07:22)

While we are at Conde's for sale...could you guys take a look at this Guitar?

http://www.bughouse.info/img/conde/

Its my old instrument and i try to sell it, but i sold it used myself and i am uncertain which type it really is. I thought it may be an EF5 which would be the very cheap Estudio model, so i ask 1,050,- € - however maybe you can make me a great xmas present and convince me that i really own a much better instrument [;)]

Thanks!
Daniel



Jim Opfer -> RE: Conde for sale (Dec. 5 2004 17:23:57)

Paco,

EF5 has a different head design and is a Conde Hermanos Felipe V shop model, your guitar is from the Gravina shop and is probably a model 7.
I think your price is about right but I'm guessing.

Jim.



Jim Opfer -> RE: Conde for sale (Dec. 15 2004 16:39:07)

quote:

OK! I love it but it has to go.


Sold

Had a brainwave, sold her to myself, that way I've got the cash in the bank and I still own the guitar! [8|]

Looking around for other business opportunities.

Jim.



Escribano -> RE: Conde for sale (Dec. 15 2004 17:37:14)

quote:

sold her to myself,


Now that is smart!



Ron.M -> RE: Conde for sale (Dec. 15 2004 19:25:52)

Jim,
I'll swap you my 1975 Ramirez Student model (definitely from the Ramirez workshp) + say £500... for it?

cheers

Ron



Jim Opfer -> RE: Conde for sale (Dec. 21 2004 16:40:40)

quote:

I'll swap you my


Hi Ron,

I remember your Ramirez very well and it's a very nice guitar.

I'm trying to move one too many, out the house just now, helps the lodgers get up and down the stairs if I do and keeps my insurance premium down.
All those cases lying around, you know?[:o]

Jim.



Ron.M -> RE: Conde for sale (Dec. 21 2004 21:21:33)

Hi Jim,
Was just kidding!
That Conde is worth more on the open market.
I've been playing the Ramirez more recently, it definitely has a high action and couldn't be reduced because of the bridge size, but I really do like the sound.
Slightly darker than a normal blanca, but very woody tone, strong basses and very short sustain on the trebles.
Sometimes the slightly "sweeter" tone on the trebles puts me in mind of VA's sound, if you hit it just right.
I love the Bernal as well of course.

All guitars are good!! [:D]

cheers

Ron



Guest -> RE: Conde for sale (Dec. 30 2004 14:39:01)

Ron

You can lower the bridge by lowering the bone and removing wood from the top of the channel. Since you also lose angle, you can redrill the bridge for 12 holes, which gives you much more angle.

Suerte

Sean



Ron.M -> RE: Conde for sale (Dec. 30 2004 15:17:56)

Thanks Sean,
I don't mind experimenting with filing the bone down, but when it comes to removing wood I think I'd leave it to a guitar builder.
(There's one about 50 miles from me actually).

I'm a kinda chipboard and nails guy myself. [:D]

cheers

Ron



Guest -> RE: Conde for sale (Dec. 31 2004 7:39:09)

How high is the action above the soundboard at the bridge and how much bone do you have above the bridge?
Sean is right about having the bridge redrilled to a 12 hole. It does help on low action, but look for someone who knows his/her stuff. And has got the proper equipment for the operation.

Anders



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