kinda sh*tting myself... (Full Version)

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HolyEvil -> kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 15 2010 3:56:56)

I just came back from a lesson from my teacher, and he told me I have to start learning how to accompany dance.. preferably in the next 1-2 weeks, sitting in on dance classes with him so he could show me the ropes.. I said yes.. and I'm very interested..
BUT i'm also kinda ****ting myself.. I tend to get nervous when I play in front of others.. like my teacher or friend etc..
how do u guys get rid of the playing in front of the jitters?

and what do I have to do to prepare for it?
my teacher said that I have to start up on the rhythmic stuff..
like rhythmic bulerias and solea etc..

anything else?



Pimientito -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 15 2010 5:54:26)

If you have the opportunity to sit in on dance classes with a more experienced player then take it. You will learn lots and lots. I started by accompanying dancers and I would recommend that all flamenco guitarists do that if they get the opportunity. Classes are fairly informal and the dancers will be more worried about getting their steps right than listening to your playing. Just follow the lead player as best as you can. It will repeat a lot so you will pick it up. Follow the compas and don't worry about flash falsetas. Two chords in compas is much better than a falseta that throws the dancers off.

In Granada I had the experience of the dance teacher stopping the class, shouting abuse at me and generally embarrassing me in front of all the dancers if I made mistakes. Boy, that sure gives you incentive to get it right !!!
I hope the teachers are kinder in Sydney.

There is no secret to getting over the jitters. Some people are naturally more at ease in front of people than others. Most people get used to it by experience. Like everything else its just practice. Once you get used to playing with the dancers in private and you know the choreography well you will be ready to perform it in public. As you get more confident you can add a solo piece or two that you know well and before long playing in public will be something you actually start to enjoy rather than fear. You have to put yourself in those scary situations to improve!



Doitsujin -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 15 2010 14:18:23)

Be happy for having the opportunity to learn playing for dance! If you arent sure you can play silently. You will see, its fun and youll dig in rasguados and rhythm impro. Thats exactly what a flamenco-guitar payer needs. Dance acomp. is the ultimate tool for natural rhythm and rasguados.

If you are alone it can happy if you are not lucky that the teacher gets ugly.... sometimes every danceteacher freaks out.. you know they are still artists... artists are weird and excentric. Well,..a necessary part in flamenco where is all about feelings....



Doitsujin -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 15 2010 14:19:30)

double post



Florian -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 15 2010 18:35:05)

Hey mate congratulations !![:)]

this is exciting stuff

You will be just fine, absoluteley nothing to worry about, he will probably eaze you into it so for ages you will just follow him..just slowly with time maybe letting u do stuff he knows u can...

quote:

In Granada I had the experience of the dance teacher stopping the class, shouting abuse at me and generally embarrassing me in front of all the dancers if I made mistakes. Boy, that sure gives you incentive to get it right !!!


sounds like a pri*k who used u to show off to the dancers [:D]...i cant imagine the need for that...confidence is a guitarists most important tool...and that wouldnt have done much to encourage it at the time...i dont mind someone putting someone on the spot a litlle to encourage him to practice like crazy...fear of humilliation is a very genuine motivator...but if one has made a mistake , he knoes it, dancers know it...and will be embarassed...theres no need for the extra abuse from anyone else...unless is done in a joking manner ..wich is what i do in my palmas class ( but i do it to eaze things rather then to make em more harder) once u lough...you forghet your stress

Ps..HolyEvil...dont worry , this wont happen to you...and if your teacher puts you on the spot ...it will be when u ready and am sure wont react like that

quote:

and what do I have to do to prepare for it?
my teacher said that I have to start up on the rhythmic stuff..
like rhythmic bulerias and solea etc..

anything else?


make sure you understand how everything is counted and know the timing for everything and understand how lamadas work...and how they are counted..

acctualy listen to the dance teacher when she brakes it down for dance students...cause its eazy to swich off and mess around on the guitar but try and listen to her as she will brake everything down for dancers and it will be just as usefull to you

but until then if you have acces to solo compas ...listen to it a million times...its very traditional/standard and dance orientated....a greate solid base for anyone looking to learn accompanying dancers...if you play exactly the same rythms and llamadas like in solo compas, you could play anywhere in the world and noone will look at you funny...its a greate base



at_leo_87 -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 15 2010 22:20:21)

here's how i think of it. fear is a highly illogical response to playing in front of people. fear is there to help you run away from or to fight off predators. are you doing either of those? what are you actually scared of? are you in mortal danger? fear will actually hinder you rather than help you. so make a CHOICE not to be scared. choose to be excited and curious instead.

and if you think about it, the girls are going to be the ones that are self conscious. they're the ones up there dancing and you're watching. you have the easy job!

it's really no big deal. soon you're going to be saying to your teacher, "hey man, get out of the way, let ME handle this!!!"

always watch what they're doing. like florian said, pay attention when the teacher break things down. because that's what you're going to accompany next. figure out cool rhythms to support or contrast.

if you don't do this already, practice with a metronome at home. a lot of people speed up during the 6, 8, 10 or whenever they do a rasgueado. tap your foot in class, if you need to. if it's audible, it helps the dancers too. actually, sometimes i catch the beginners cheating when they're practicing palmas. they listen to my foot instead of my guitar, then when i stop the foot, they get lost. lol.

no need to **** yourself! have fun!

oh and be professional. show up on time, have your guitar tuned up and ready to go, your nails already filed, wear clean underwear, etc.



HolyEvil -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 16 2010 1:23:41)

i'm practicing with a metronome now.. but my fear is to make a mistake.. whether it is in compas or falseta or the timing between the notes of the falseta itself etc.

I'm not sure whether it happens to u guys, but on some days.. my finger just won't do what i want them to do..
eg a PMIA arpgg .. when I want even space/time between the P M I A
I maybe will do it like PM I A or P MI A
or my picado will do something like IM IMIMIM I MIMIMIM when playing a run.. eg yesterday before/during my lesson I can't play this run that I know I can the whole freaking day.. today it's all good.. even notes in the run.. pretty good speed etc..

do you guys ever have days like this? or is it just me?

cheers



Arash -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 16 2010 2:03:32)

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

here's how i think of it. fear is a highly illogical response to playing in front of people. fear is there to help you run away from or to fight off predators. are you doing either of those? what are you actually scared of? are you in mortal danger? fear will actually hinder you rather than help you. so make a CHOICE not to be scared. choose to be excited and curious instead.


good advice.



Stu -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 16 2010 4:15:48)

This is a great chance!! I think its natural to be a little nervous..its helpful too.

After playing for about 7 years, I've only started accompanying recently (done about 6 classes) but I must say its fantastic.. the benefits are instantly evident.

I've messed up loads of times musically and a couple of times I've completely ****ed the compas and no one has shouted at me yet.. the dance teacher is extremely understanding and we have a little laugh when the errors happen.

All I've played so far is

Improvised Solea for warm up
Farruca, Sevillanas, Rumba (for castanet work) and some simple bulerias rythms....(havent played the whole Alegrias yet cos I always forget parts!) I'd even go so far as to say, its slightly boring at times.

All the stuff I've played, I pretty much learnt in the first year of study from beginners books, (and thats all they want) although I wouldn't have been able to play it as confidently as now..

I'd just be honest with the teacher and yourself, play what you can, simple stuff without too much fancy bizniz thats gonna screw you up..... and you'll probably play stuff at slow/middling speeds as the dancers are learning too remember.......

ahah listen to me....and here I was only a few months ago asking the same questions as you... I guess its testament to what these dance classes mean to me and how they've built my confidence.

Once you get through the first twenty mins of the class you'll be fine...you'll be the man!

Starting to play for dance is the one of the best decisions I've made in a long time, I finally feel like all the hours of hard work are for something...I'm learning and improving constantly. I leave that class with a massive grin across my cakehole every week and you will too!...unless the teacher shouts at ya[:D][:D]

Stu

ps. I hope there some helpful stuff in there and I havent just spoken about myself[:)]



Stu -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 16 2010 4:20:30)

quote:

wear clean underwear

[:D][:D]

yeah thats most important, its customary for new guitarists to dance bulerias in ya underpants at the end of the class.



Florian -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 17 2010 0:30:11)

I forghot to ask...whose danceschool are you going to play at ?...might know them



HolyEvil -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 17 2010 17:19:25)

It's at 268 or 248 paramatta road stanmore.. Can't rem the name, Los or Les something something..
Do you know them?



Florian -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 17 2010 20:25:05)

Los Carmonas ?...i dont know them

let me know how it goes mate, good luck



Adam -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 24 2010 10:34:35)

I started playing for dancers last fall and had a lot of the same worries. My compás is terrible, and I'm generally petrified playing for other people. Major perfectionist [:D] Playing for dancers has been really fun and actually helped with those issues. Dancers are totally non-judgemental and generally just happy to have live music instead of playing to a recording. And culturally I've noticed that while we can be really picky with falsetas and chord choice and all that, dancers are way more interested in the dancing than in the guitar/cante - and especially outside of Spain a lot of them are not really aficionaos but are just doing flamenco because they think it's fun and exotic - so they'll really have no clue whether what you're playing is ultra-advanced or the most basic por arriba progression.

As for the compás, let's face it, most of these dancers (unless you're in a super-advanced class) are way less familiar with the compás than you are, so the teacher will be doing very simple palmas - strong downbeats, no contratiempos - so it'll be ultra-easy to follow. Start off playing the most basic chord progressions for whatever palo you're in, get the compás down and in sync with the dancers, then maybe try some more complicated chord changes or little falsetitas or whatever, just to shake things up. You'll find that you've been playing things which may have been slightly out of compás, or some chord change somewhere was trickier than you thought, and it ends up being a very useful learning experience.

Good luck!



estebanana -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 24 2010 15:13:52)

The most important thing about playing dance classes is to not figet and noodle on your guitar while the teacher is talking.

The second most important thing is to take a tape recorder and listen back to the class.

The third most important is to have a few disarming stripper jokes ready when the teacher tries to give you an impromptu lap dance in front of her students to humiliate you.

The forth most, if the teacher gives you the "The Look" stare at the floor in subservience and say "Yes Mistress". If she says: "I can't hear you, you lowly worm." then say "Yes Mistress. " again with a louder voice.

Fifth: Never let one of her students sass mouth you. It's typical for a lazy dance student to blame her bad compas on the guitar player. Nip this **** in the bud. Wait until the teacher is not looking a play a B-7 chord right at that dancer with your middle finger straight and tall on the bass F#. If the student calls you on it deny everything.

Sixth: When there are other student guitar players near you and the lead guitarist, play louder than they play. Dominate them with sound if you can't play in compas.

Seventh: Look at the dancers whole body . Only chumps look at just the feet. The whole body tells you what the dancer is going to do. Listen to the feet and look at the chest. This affords you the opportunity to check them out while still appearing to play guitar.

Eighth: Assume all dancers know nothing about music. Keep the mystery up. If they ask you which chord you are playing tell them it is a very special chord you invented called Q minor or Z major 7. Keep them guessing.

Ninth: Always arrive late to class and tune loudly while they are warming up. This practice will enable you to throw better, longer tantrums and scenes should you eventually advance to the point where you might actually play in public in ten years.

The Tenth Commandment of Dance Accompaniment:

Don't fish off the company pier. Screw dancers from other schools not the one you play in. Failure with to comply the tenth will result in massive complications. If you have a canoodle with a young lady and it goes south she will tell her fellow dancers you have a 2" penis.

Enjoy your next step into flamenco guitaristhood.



at_leo_87 -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 24 2010 20:41:25)

^^^L.O.FRIGGEN'.L!!!^^^
[:D][:D][:D][:D]

really good advice except for #9.

quote:

If you have a canoodle with a young lady and it goes south she will tell her fellow dancers you have a 2" penis.

[:D][:D][:D]



gato -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 24 2010 21:19:39)

Enjoy yourself, because it's your time to learn too, so let your teacher be there to teach you, and he will impart things to you, that's why he's going to be there with you, to teach you also.

You know enough already and you must trust his judgement in putting you in that situation, you're his student, so be a student and don't expect to have it right the whole time or anything at all, and follow his lead. I think that is why this is happening, because he needs you there to learn from him.

Be humble and let your teacher impart to you, and don't you think at all that you have to be an experianced player, the dancers will be aware that you too are a student. Think about it, vanity does not learn, it's a kind of awareness and openness to learn that you must impart, and you must be willing to be wrong sometimes or in need of slight correction.

So remember your place, and do try to compliment the dancers with your music and most of all, be paitent with them. Their very presence will be teaching you quite a lot.

And most of all, keep trying your best but don't impersonate an experianced player, because that is where all of the problems will result in a situation such as this. You have this chance, and there will be others if you don't discourage yourself with false hopes that will blot the learning experiance, the reason you will be there.

You are there to learn so learn something and maybe someday you will take your experiance and teach someone else who needs to know; the point is you have to try and learn something first, and then go and put it to practice and to good use when you are done with this phase in your development. I think you will do just fine so have at it! Don't worry about it, students do well who remember always first of all they are students and take it as it comes.
Gary



Florian -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 24 2010 23:01:17)

quote:

The most important thing about playing dance classes is to not figet and noodle on your guitar while the teacher is talking.

The second most important thing is to take a tape recorder and listen back to the class.

The third most important is to have a few disarming stripper jokes ready when the teacher tries to give you an impromptu lap dance in front of her students to humiliate you.

The forth most, if the teacher gives you the "The Look" stare at the floor in subservience and say "Yes Mistress". If she says: "I can't hear you, you lowly worm." then say "Yes Mistress. " again with a louder voice.

Fifth: Never let one of her students sass mouth you. It's typical for a lazy dance student to blame her bad compas on the guitar player. Nip this **** in the bud. Wait until the teacher is not looking a play a B-7 chord right at that dancer with your middle finger straight and tall on the bass F#. If the student calls you on it deny everything.

Sixth: When there are other student guitar players near you and the lead guitarist, play louder than they play. Dominate them with sound if you can't play in compas.

Seventh: Look at the dancers whole body . Only chumps look at just the feet. The whole body tells you what the dancer is going to do. Listen to the feet and look at the chest. This affords you the opportunity to check them out while still appearing to play guitar.

Eighth: Assume all dancers know nothing about music. Keep the mystery up. If they ask you which chord you are playing tell them it is a very special chord you invented called Q minor or Z major 7. Keep them guessing.

Ninth: Always arrive late to class and tune loudly while they are warming up. This practice will enable you to throw better, longer tantrums and scenes should you eventually advance to the point where you might actually play in public in ten years.

The Tenth Commandment of Dance Accompaniment:

Don't fish off the company pier. Screw dancers from other schools not the one you play in. Failure with to comply the tenth will result in massive complications. If you have a canoodle with a young lady and it goes south she will tell her fellow dancers you have a 2" penis.

Enjoy your next step into flamenco guitaristhood.


[:D][:D][:D][:D]

i live by those rules

11th..if you are playing with another guitarist and something goes wrong...look confused and irritated and look at the other guitarrist ..[:@]


and yeah dont ever arrive in time cause u make it difficult for all the other guitarrists ...next thing word will get around that its posible and they will expect everyone to be on time and thats just unrealistic and ridicoulos...this is bigger then you



srshea -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 24 2010 23:09:30)

quote:


If you have a canoodle with a young lady and it goes south she will tell her fellow dancers you have a 2" penis.


Wait a minute, if she was mad at me why would she give me such a compliment?



XXX -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 25 2010 4:21:54)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana
Ninth: Always arrive late to class and tune loudly while they are warming up.


Better: arrive AFTER they are already warmed up [;)] (thats what i did anyway, no need to waste time imo)

quote:

tell them it is a very special chord you invented called Q minor or Z major 7

Doesnt make much difference to them if its A,B,C or Z major anyways [:D]



Doitsujin -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 25 2010 11:14:38)

quote:

Better: arrive AFTER they are already warmed up (thats what i did anyway, no need to waste time imo)


Moron! (Sorry Deniz [;)] ) You skip watching chicks who strech out the body?... pppffft.. Man,..where are you from? Ok there are these housewife classes.... I could understand you on skipping that.



at_leo_87 -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 25 2010 14:29:57)

quote:

You skip watching chicks who strech out the body?... pppffft.. Man,..where are you from? Ok there are these housewife classes.... I could understand you on skipping that.


it's also a good time to warm up yourself.



XXX -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 25 2010 14:51:27)

No chicks in the courses i attended to. :.(
And i must say i had only few inspirational moments in the courses?? Good workout for the hands for sure, but nothing that i couldnt learn or do at home in shorter time. First 3, 4 times i was excited, then i figured out how and what to play (on the most basic level of course, but so was the dancing) and i was bored a long time from then. I stayed because of solidarity with the dancer, and because there was no alternative to me.
I think if there were a singer, or any other musician or a nicer choreography in the course i wouldnt have been bored at all (had one time fun with a cajonist and singer), but i guess i was very unlucky in that regard [&:].



Stu -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 26 2010 5:34:44)

*Don't fish off the company pier.*

Fantastic!!.[:D][:D]

....... but my companys fish are so fresh!![:(][:(]



estebanana -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 26 2010 7:58:11)

Well you can fish off the company pier. But if you fish off the company pier don't whine if you lose your bait!



John O. -> RE: kinda sh*tting myself... (Mar. 31 2010 9:59:35)

quote:

I tend to get nervous when I play in front of others.. like my teacher or friend etc..
how do u guys get rid of the playing in front of the jitters?


By playing in classes [:)] Seriously, whatever I want to perform on stage I always first play for the classes when they're stretching. Better to mess up in front of them...

At the beginning you'll be strumming a lot of basic chords and it'll still be difficult. It's worth the effort though. Good luck!



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