I finally played an amazing Ramirez!!! (Full Version)

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ricecrackerphoto -> I finally played an amazing Ramirez!!! (Mar. 4 2010 14:45:33)

At Retrofret in Brooklyn, they had a 1959 Ramirez peghead with the initials A.M. The owner thinks the luthier is Antonio Martinez and I see on Guitar Salon's site, that they have another '59 Ramirez by him. Does anyone know more about Martinez? I have not heard of him.

I've only played the heavy dead Ramirez models found at Guitar Center so this was a great surprise. This one was light, responsive with a great playability. The best thing is it had the dark, moody sound of a Ramirez while still being fairly bright. A lot of flavor in it's tones.

What a great joy it was to play.

I only took one photo of it. It's in great shape though I don't know the story behind it's finish.

Woo hoo!

Doug



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Armando -> RE: I finally played an amazing Ramirez!!! (Mar. 6 2010 6:43:42)

Hy ricecrackerphoto

Ramirez guitars are probably the brand with the largest difference in quality within the same brand. The reason for that is the age of the brand itself 1882 til 2010 and the fact that the Ramirez Family emloyed a number of journeymans in the past til nowadays.
Some of them where more talented than others and i would say, even more talented than the Ramirez Family itself. In spite of them they had a lot of building practice as they were responsable for the production in the Ramirez Workshop. Santos Hernandez and Domingo Esteso are the most famous journeymans out of the Ramirez workshop, but there are more, such as Paulino Bernabe and Manuel Caceres which were able to sucessfully set up their own workshops. I don't know anything about Antonio Martinez to be honest, but i believe you that he have built good guitars. Lightness in construction is allways a good indicator for a quality instrument. To my opinion the Ramirez brand has suffered a bit during the past decade due to the fact that they have outsourced the production of their student line models to guitar factories in Valencia. These guitars are way different from the concert models and they have actually nothing to do with Ramirez guitars unless the name on their label.

Best regards

Armando



Richard Jernigan -> RE: I finally played an amazing Ramirez!!! (Mar. 18 2010 10:40:49)

The student model Jose Ramirez guitars have always been outsourced since the late 19th century. There are receipts and invoices to Jose Ramirez I from a Valencia "factory".

Two other Jose Ramirez III 'oficiales' who went out on their own are Manuel Contreras Sr, who made the 1959 Ramirez which was the first used by Segovia. When Manuel Sr passed away, the business was taken over by his son Pablo, who does business as Manuel Contreras II. Felix Manzanero is still in business in Madrid.

I have spoken with Manzanero, Contreras Sr and Bernabe Sr about their days working for Ramirez. They all said he was a stern taskmaster who insisted on absolutely strict adherence to his design, and that he inspected every 1a or 2a instrument personally before signing the label.

I bought several 1a classicals from Jose III in the 1960s and 1970s, reselling them in the USA. In my experience the variation within a single journeyman's output was comparable to the variation across the output of the whole shop.

RNJ



Richard Jernigan -> RE: I finally played an amazing Ramirez!!! (Mar. 18 2010 10:46:10)

...and I have a '67 1a cedar/cypress Jose Ramirez III. with Antonio Martinez' initials on the heel block. It was bought new in 1967, and I have played it ever since. It has over a million airline miles on it as checked baggage in a Mark Leaf or Reuer case. It's a great guitar.

Segovia used several cedar/rosewood 1a's as concert instruments. At least one was made by Martinez.

RNJ



Doitsujin -> RE: I finally played an amazing Ramirez!!! (Mar. 18 2010 13:47:34)

I always wonder why the guitars dont get a scratch with all that dirt all around..



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