2's and 3's (Full Version)

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Ron.M -> 2's and 3's (Oct. 21 2004 20:14:31)

I've known this (in my brain) for ages, but I'm only just starting to *feel* that nearly all Flamenco (except for things like Farruca etc) can be counted in 2's or 3's at the same time.
I feel that this is what is giving all the rhythms that rhythmic "ambiguity".
(That, and the fact that Flamencos will never choose to accent an "on" beat when there's a handy "off" beat available! LOL!)
It actually leads into Bulerias turning into Tangos and turning into Fandangos or even Soleares.
Actually Bulerias is tremendously close to Siguiriyas depending on how you feel it and care to pace it.
I know it sounds simple, and all you musician guys will explain it to me in time signatures etc. which I don't understand (or care to understand LOL!)

This is a tremendous music!
All so related and yet so apart.

cheers

Ron




musicalgrant -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 17:32:23)

Dear Ron

You are an angel and lo and behold I find you here!!! Thanks again for letting me have the flamenco master again.

I think what you are refering to is a polyrhythm, where there are two rhythms going at once, like a two over a three, which is a Rumba pattern etc.. and yes they merger into each other, like in African drumming they have polyrythms going all the time.

to work out a polyrythm for a 2 over a 3 you times 2x3=6 and then write out the pulses
2 over three rhythm


C C C This is the two pulse
1 2 3 4 5 6
C C This is the Three pulse
1 2 3 4 5 6

One way to play it is using each hand (open or closed depending on the sound you want) and clapping them on your legs, like left hand does the two pulse on the left leg, and the right hand does the 3 pulse on the right leg.

Usually open hand on the pulse and closed hand on the count,

hopoe this helps lol

Grant




musicalgrant -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 17:33:15)

it came out wrong on the post LOL ill email you.
Grant




musicalgrant -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 17:43:06)

2x3 =6


C C C
1 2 3 4 5 6

C C

c= clap

left hand does the one and right hand the other.




musicalgrant -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 17:43:39)

LOL its done it again it will have to be by email then!! LOL




Escribano -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 18:43:55)

Looks like flamenco found you again, Grant[:D]




musicalgrant -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 18:59:59)

Escribano are u a luthier?




Escribano -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 19:05:40)

I wouldn't go that far but it is one interest of mine that I hope to fulfill very soon, ¿porque?

p.s. the web site URL in your profile is 404, what should it be?




Escribano -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 19:13:52)

Cancel that last question

Your web site URL is http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/musicalgrant/www/index_Flamenco.html

but it's too long for "My Profile". Put it in your signature instead.




musicalgrant -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 19:46:24)

Its just that I saw the pictures on your web site and it looks like you are a luthier, and what beautiful pictures of the guitar being made. I have a hand made guitar and I have the uttermost respect for the guitar maker that is all.

Grant




Escribano -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 20:16:54)

Ah, I just love the smell[:D] I just hope to finish one, one day. The humidity in the UK is a serious issue, much overlooked by amateurs like me - and the hours involved. It's all on hold for a while but I'll be back soon enough.

There are a few serious luthiers on this forum that pop by now and again. Stick around.




Ron.M -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 20:23:09)

Hi Grant,
Welcome to the Forum amigo!
Yeah, the two's over three's thing invades a lot of Flamenco.
It's difficult to get, a bit like patting your head and rubbing your tummy at the same time...only more difficult! LOL!
Thanks again!

cheers

Ron




Patrick -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 22:20:16)

OK guys you have to go to Grant's web site and click on "Press Here To Hear A Track". This guy is a serious player!

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/musicalgrant/www/index_Flamenco.html

Welcome Grant.




Miguel de Maria -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 22 2004 22:49:04)

Yeah, sounds pretty good! I play a lot of those falsetas, and I probably got them from the same place you did, Grant! :)




musicalgrant -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 23 2004 11:55:24)

Which piece is it?lol its been a long time since i've updated that website, must get round to it as it was my first attempt, and if not a bit presumptious of me to call myself a flamenco guitarist, but hey what the heck, we can only try and do our best.

Thanks for the compliment Patrik us musos love compliments [:)] lol




Jim Opfer -> RE: 2's and 3's (Oct. 23 2004 15:45:55)

Nice web site Grant, there's definately a growing flamenco guitar community in UK, good to see.

Jim.




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