Parrilla de Jerez (Full Version)

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flybynight -> Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 3 2010 11:35:39)

I was just hunting down some new inspiration, and hit this beauty:



I can hear lots of similarities to Moraito in this (or vice versa..).

There's something about the speed of attack, a rough, fast and dry sound in some way.

Is this what is called 'Jerez' style of playing, or is that something completely different ?

(Damn noobie questions... [:)] )

Thanks!



Matic -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 3 2010 14:37:20)

Yes, this is good old Jerez style.
He passed away a few months ago. Btw, anyone knows who the kid playing bulerias with him is?
You noticed the similarity with Moraito. Check also Manuel Morao here:

Actually if you look at 3 generations of Moraos (Manuel Morao, Moraito Chico and Diego del Morao) you see 3 generations of Jerez style of playing.
As opposed to lets say Moron style:



Estevan -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 3 2010 18:37:16)

quote:

Btw, anyone knows who the kid playing bulerias with him is?

That's his nephew, Manuel Parrilla (son of Juan), who's been playing professionally since the age of nine. He's a great player but kind of low-profile. He shows up on a lot of recordings by well-known cantaores - you've probably heard him with Montse, Potitio, Niña Pastori, El Zambo, El Cigala, Guadiana, etc. etc.




flybynight -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 3 2010 23:34:40)

Great stuff.. thanks for explaining that, and showing it all with Siguirillas links, to help spell it out.

The Manuel/Moraito connection is really clear, even to my ears.

As a noobie, it's a fantastic journey going back in time to understand how all these influences fit together. Like most, I started being blown away with Paco etc., but this is fabby stuff, and I'm getting into Cante much more now.

Eventually getting back to the roots of it all. Start at the end, and end at the beginning. Not the easiest way, but, hey..



Ricardo -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 4 2010 0:11:27)

They both had the same guitar teacher, Rafael Aguila (b.1900-76) who learned jerez style from Javier Molina. Nuñez also studied with him.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 4 2010 0:52:04)

viva Parilla y viva Jerez !

how about the compás in these siguiriyas. I find it very difficult to follow.



kozz -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 19 2010 11:14:48)

Parrilla is the best!!!

But what I personally found out just recently after listening a lot to cante and solo-guitar...it makes a difference.

Parrilla is the best in accompaniement for me, solo...I don't know yet...maybe I have to listen with another ear....

Personally, there's none better as Parrilla for sequiriyas accompaniement.
(but it could also be that sequiriyas is my favourite palo)



chapman_g -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 19 2010 16:19:06)

quote:

Personally, there's none better as Parrilla for sequiriyas accompaniement.
(but it could also be that sequiriyas is my favourite palo)


I really really like Parilla accompaniment too, but my favorite accompanist is Paco Cepero his recordings with Tio El Borrico, Manuel Soto Sordera, Rancapino, La Perla, el Turronero are the greatest I have heard.

Some Seguirillas


Some Bulerias



kozz -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 0:01:48)

quote:

I really really like Parilla accompaniment too, but my favorite accompanist is Paco Cepero his recordings with Tio El Borrico, Manuel Soto Sordera, Rancapino, La Perla, el Turronero are the greatest I have heard.


You are absolutely right. Its nonesense to say one is the best, ofcourse Cepero, Manuel Morao, Perico el del Lunar etc are all great, and they all have their personal aire.

There was a time that I thougth that flamenco was rumbas and pdl, and I never took the opportunity to look further untill by mistake I saw this clip, and then the whole flamenco addiction started, and a beautifull world opened form me.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kozzekozz#p/u/2/RzFPY5GGE9w

First I was completely overwhelmed by La Paquera's voice and started searchin who the guitarist was....so I am a litle bit biased.
La Parilla is to me like for many people pdl is.



estebanana -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 0:50:20)

Wow, just when I was beginning to think there was nothing but myopic Paco heads here people talk about cante and lineages of toque. Did know the reason Parilla played standing up is because Paquera used to try to grab his balls while he played for her? Standing up made it easier for him to deflect her aggresive advances.

For me Parilla por tientos, or cantinas, for siguirya Melchor. For older era playing.

Cepero is a truly amazing accopanist because he can step all over the cante without stepping on it. And then when he played for Donday on his last recording he is invisible, but always there. He was perfect next to Dondays last songs.



XXX -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 2:17:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Wow, just when I was beginning to think there was nothing but myopic Paco heads here people talk about cante and lineages of toque.


Dont want to argue, and i especially dont feel offended since i AM myopic ;)! But it is my observation over YEARS that every thread about cante sooner or later insults solo guitar. Just like in every Paco Pena thread sooner or later somebody pops in to say he "likes him more than the other paco". And just like every traditional toque thread sooner or later insults modern playing.
Is it f***ing possible to just enjoy your thing without these sidekicks just like its done on other threads too? Coz its getting really old. You can enhance the effect of insults anyway if you do it much less [:D]



chapman_g -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 4:53:40)

Kozz,
Like you I was not so into the cante in the very beginning, and I had a similar experience like what you had with Paquera and Parilla with one of the other favorites for accompaniment Manuel Morao with Perla de Cadiz, and like you after that is when I really started to get into flamenco.

I agree totally none of us can this or that is the best, but we can say who our favorite is. At the risk of offending Deniz who think we will descend into an argument over players and modern versus old I will say almost of these accompaniment masters that we are talking of are from Jerez except Melchor.

Estebana. That is exactly what gets me with Paco Cepero he has all these great driving falsetas, remates and rhythmic things, and yet I never feel he his overshadowing the cante. He always seems to be answering and responding to them and making it fit like hand and glove, but also with a lot of stuff there for a guitar nut like me. Oh and thanks Estebana that is why I like this forum I thought I had all the recordings available with Cepero accompanying, but I don't have Morrongo with Santiago Donday, next time I talk to you I will.



kozz -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 5:07:44)

quote:

Kozz,
Like you I was not so into the cante in the very beginning, and I had a similar experience like what you had with Paquera and Parilla with one of the other favorites for accompaniment Manuel Morao with Perla de Cadiz, and like you after that is when I really started to get into flamenco.


Hee Chapman,
I was not into flamenco at all before Paquara.

But I follow you totally. I like Parilla for his emotional playing, Cepero for his funky ass groove, Javier Molina for his almost unfollowing playing etc.
You can't pinpoint one as your favourite.
Every gitarist has his speciality, now and in the old days.
That's what I believe also a reason why singers feel more comfartable with one guitarist then the other, and the other way around ofcourse.

IMO if one is not open minded to flamenco he/she will miss a lot.
In the beginning I refused to listen to the modern flamenco, not anymore, there's some great stuff...its just another lessons learned.


@Deniz
I don't care what other people think or not, I'll just have to respect that, but you can't argue taste. I follow my path on my own, sometimes I like something, sometimes not....but years later it can be totally the opposite.
But I agree, it is a re-occuring thing [:D]

By the way, what is "myopic"?



runner -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 6:10:39)

".....every thread about cante sooner or later insults solo guitar." Wow! Are we then to not discuss the 800-pound gorilla at the juerga, el Cante? Just to point out that cante is-was-always will be the reason flamenco existed at all, is not to "insult" solo guitar--it's just stating the historical fact. People are entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts.

runner



XXX -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 7:29:04)

careful runner, what i did NOT write is "every thread about cante IS an insult...". I just stated an observation - a historical fact if you want - concerning this foro, and of course i also have heard this in real life too (much lesser degree though). My point wasnt the importance of cante, in fact i was one of few peple who actually posted an audio accompaniment. Finally i wouldnt discuss about cante with somebody like you anyway (no offense).

kozz, yes, but tastes were not my topic. Maybe you are too new to get what i mean. I have never seen anybody mocking about traditional when something modern is posted. The opposite happens every now and then. Why not just enjoy your s*it, each to his own tastes, without bashing anything?

Anyway sorry that i have nothing to contribute this thread. I guess its not my taste... just one thing: the bulerias with the kid was awesome. Some falsetas sounded very "funky".



kozz -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 8:05:56)

quote:

kozz, yes, but tastes were not my topic. Maybe you are too new to get what i mean. I have never seen anybody mocking about traditional when something modern is posted. The opposite happens every now and then. Why not just enjoy your s*it, each to his own tastes, without bashing anything?


Well don't make your problem my problem my friend!
I am new, but I am not a child you are talking to!

And to make things clear for you, and perhaps a little bit understanding of who I am....I had / have not intention what so to get cante/non-cante thing started.

I just gave my opinion what I thought without "the-thing-which-seems-to-bother-you" in my mind.

You are making your live so difficult in thinking of terms like this....let it go man and enjoy your preferences.


I am out of this thread when somebody starts to scream again about all this, enjoy.



XXX -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 8:21:58)

[8|]
I wasnt specifically referring to you or anybody, nor did i started a discussion about cante.
End of story [;)]
Please go on with this thread. I have said what i had to say. (jeez...)



estebanana -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 10:07:46)

I'm not insulting anyone, simply saying there's a high saturation level of threads about Paco de L. People fixate on the modern hotshot guitar soloists and it's only a fraction of what flamenco is.

I love Paco, but I also like Moraito's playing on the new Mujerez CD- which features the singing of Juana la del Pipa, If you want to talk about the continuation of the Jerez groove there it is. I have not seen a thread yet on this amazing recording with the Solea por Buleria cut which has got to be the best thing in flamenco in the last ten years.

I guess I'm over the whole guitar jock thing. I even make guitars at a professional level and I get sick of guitar-o-centric conversations. When I'm building a guitar I don't even think how other guitars sound, I hear cante, cante not guitar sounds.

I get frustrated because people are listening to the wrong things. I constantly hear "I want my guitar to sound like Vicente Amigo's Negra Reyes blah blah blah..........well those guitar sound that way because they imitate the voices of great singers.

If someone said make me a guitar that sounds like Chocolate, I think I would give it to them for free.

rant over.



minordjango -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 10:51:08)

thats cool videos!.

does anyone know what type of guitar hes using ? its sounds like 100 Euro instrument ! but great i guess evocation , the compas sounded pretty out there anders (SOunds like mine![:D]), difference being he can play.

the little kid, darn it how he play like that.

Deniz as ron said the forum gets a little crazy (people complaing and saying whos best, just turn a blind eye to it amigo,

i like the concept everyone has something to offer! , crap too many sangarias! haven't even got to Spain yet[:-]



srshea -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 11:08:07)

I'm in full agreement about the Mujerez disc. Definitely the best record I bought last year, and a refreshing corrective to Macanita's disappointingly over-produced new record.


I'd love a guitar that sounds like Chocolate! I'll send you my address!



srshea -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 11:12:27)

Actually, I changed my mind. I'd rather have a guitar that sounds like Chano Lobato. Little more bark to it......



Ron.M -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 11:51:58)

quote:

I guess I'm over the whole guitar jock thing.


Good expression there, Estebana...I like it!


quote:

rant over


"Rants" are OK in my book anyway...

Sometimes you just need to say something...

(I do it all the time..[:-][:D])


cheers,

Ron



estebanana -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 20 2010 12:11:56)

Thanks it saved me 200.00 on therapy.



Ricardo -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 21 2010 12:18:41)

quote:

If someone said make me a guitar that sounds like Chocolate, I think I would give it to them for free.


Can you make me a guitar that sounds like Platero de Alcala?



kozz -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 21 2010 12:59:41)

quote:

If someone said make me a guitar that sounds like Chocolate, I think I would give it to them for free.


There are chocalate cedar flamenco guitars on the market, do any of you artists use it?
I like the looks.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



minordjango -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 21 2010 13:33:11)

that guitar actually was a blanca mi amigo KOZZ, just used in bars a lot, with folks smoking !, stains after a few decades



orsonw -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 21 2010 13:50:09)

quote:

Macanita's disappointingly over-produced new record.


This is my big problem with recorded flamenco especially cante.
I'll see someone live, get blown away and then they're record production turns me off.
Especially Macanita who I really like live but recorded is disappointing, well she's not but the production kills it for me.

Kate's (from the foro) husband Harold has produced some good flamenco records over the years for Estrella Morente and others. He captures the atmosphere and sound without killing things with over production.

Recently I discovered it's possible to download audio mp3's from youtube videos. I now listen to audio of some live performance and there are some great performances on youtube.

This Mujerez cd sounds interesting maybe I'll buy it. I want to buy records to support the artists. If there was a way I'd like to donate for the audio I get from youtube.



Ricardo -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 21 2010 14:09:18)

I have often stated that recorded flamenco nowadays does not represent well the state of cante in spain. I understand the reason was because neither artists nor producers want to record the same old tradtional stuff that camaron or Caracol Terremoto, or whoever did so much better many years ago. And artists themselves don't want to re record their stuff if they recorded their first album already that has everything they do.

My solution to this problem is to get company going that only records LIVE flamenco, primarily all the cante festivals. Let the artists help edit so they don't get miss represented, but just keep pumping it out every year. Again alot of same ol stuff, but you get that live energy missing from studios, and some improvisational jems and vibe from the audience etc.

I could hear bootlegs of Tomatito playing in bars for singers all day long, and prefer it to another solo disc for example. So a disc could be ONE guitarist with a bunch of different singers that he played for THAT year, or whatever, rather then simply a singer on tour. Or both ideas could work, but enough this trying to do something different, just to be different.

Ricardo



orsonw -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 21 2010 14:47:45)

Great idea Ricardo.

Flamenco is repetitive- aren't we just listening to the same forms over and over again with variations? Repetition is fine with me.

Thanks for the recommendation Stephen and srshea (don't know your name?) . I just went to itunes and bought the Mujerez cd. I'm listening to the Sol x bul right now- That's what I'm talking about! This is recorded live in a studio, sounds great.



estebanana -> RE: Parrilla de Jerez (Feb. 21 2010 21:17:37)

Solea por buleria is too beautiful a name to deserve to be written as sol x bul


Work with me on this guys.

Flamenco is a beautiful art best described in terms that do not sound like a court reporters shorthand.



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