Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Full Version)

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buleria74 -> Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 3 2010 7:14:05)

Dear friends,

I was checking the Lester Devoe site, look at this quote from his site
regarding finishing: http://www.devoeguitars.com/guidlines_opinions.html


quote:

Sprayed Lacquer Finish:
This is the only finish I offer. I have not noticed a difference in tone from French polish. My finish is thinly applied and that is most important. A French polish finish will not make a poorly constructed guitar sound good; but any finish applied too thickly can deaden the sound of a well made guitar. I tint the lacquer amber on spruce top guitars. The color will fade with exposure to indirect ultraviolet light while the same light will naturally darken the spruce with a warm patina.


what is your opinion? specially our luthier friends.



kovachian -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 3 2010 9:21:47)

I'm not a luthier, but I can still vouch for the appeal in lacquer. The lacquer on my Navarro was as thin as any expertly-done french polish that I've seen. I could actually see the waves in each individual grain of wood. On one tiny area that was chipped, you couldn't even see the edge of the finish, thinner than a sheet of paper.

What I cannot vouch for, is the long-term effects (aging, durability etc) of french polish because I've never owned a guitar with such a finish. I understand that lacquer is a bit more durable. I know that each type of finish has it's detractors and fans alike, but I currently don't place as much importance on one over the other. If I ever buy a french polish guitar, maybe I'll prefer one or the other or maybe not, who knows.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 3 2010 9:47:39)

De Voes guitars are finished with Nitro cellulose. Thats a good finish. What is not good IMHO is polyurethane (plastic) which is used on many also very expensive Spanish guitars.

I wont use nitro because of healt matters. Its very bad for your health and very inflamable.

With respect of long term, nityro will be stronger, less prone to dents etc than FP, but FP is A LOT easyer to fresh up and repair, so FP might win .



HolyEvil -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 3 2010 18:21:25)

hi anders. Just Checking with u. I think I read on another post that u mentioned nitrocellulose is the finish that deadens the soundboard the most?
If it is, then why would it be no 2 after FP for a guitar?

Cheers



jshelton5040 -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 5 2010 10:03:51)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

With respect of long term, nityro will be stronger, less prone to dents etc than FP, but FP is A LOT easyer to fresh up and repair, so FP might win .

Anders,

Can you explain to me what makes FP easier to repair? I simply cannot see how repairing a scratch or dent would be easier with FP than with Nitro lacquer. I have virtually no experience using French polish and freely admit very little knowledge on the subject. Please share your expertise[:)].



aeolus -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 5 2010 11:32:19)

It's interesting the differences of opinion on finishes. DeVoe's only finish offered is sprayed lacquer while Stephen Connor's standard finish is FP overall. As a note Connor's blancas go for about $1.5k over DeVoes. Given the number of fancy rosettes
Connor offers, I expect he likes to build guitars with a luxury finish rather than any perceived sonic improvement. But the proof is in the pudding as the image below testifies. This from a recent DeVoe newsletter.


Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



el topo -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 5 2010 15:03:03)

Hi: I agonized for months over what finish to use on my current batch fo 4 guitars. After consulting with numerous finishers and builders, James Goodall convinced me that french polish was the only way to go on a fine classical or flamenco. James makes world class steel strings and lacquers them.
I chose to have mine french polished and am glad I did. A side by side comparison of a french polished guitar and a lacquered one will clearly demonstrate the beauty of french polish. Lacquer may be more durable but to get it thin eneough on a top for best sound, I doubt it will be more durable than fp.[:)]



Sbu_01 -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 5 2010 20:03:55)

The ramirez shop used sprayed on lacquer during the 60's even on the primeras, so sometimes the finish became sticky like gum and obviously that wasnt good, so some would have to refinish the guitar, dont think this problem was too common but I could be wrong. Besides its Devoe if this was such a bad idea dont think he would be in business still.



buleria74 -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 5 2010 21:51:52)

quote:

I chose to have mine french polished and am glad I did. A side by side comparison of a french polished guitar and a lacquered one will clearly demonstrate the beauty of french polish. Lacquer may be more durable but to get it thin eneough on a top for best sound, I doubt it will be more durable than fp.


100% agreeing with you, FP is the best. I play on José Manuel Fernandez
guitars and they are all FP, the are monstrous in sound, they vibrate nicely
and the sound is perfectly clean and round.



Patrick -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 5 2010 22:23:08)

quote:

100% agreeing with you, FP is the best. I play on José Manuel Fernandez guitars and they are all FP, the are monstrous in sound, they vibrate nicely and the sound is perfectly clean and round.


So the assumption is, the French polish is why his guitars are so good? His building methods are of little consequence? I'm not trying to be a d..k. I just don't buy that French polish makes or breaks a good guitar.

I have owned two DeVoe’s and played others and they are all they are cracked up to be, lacquer and all. Some of the best guitars I have played were lacquered. On the other hand, I have owned several French polish guitars that were not close to a DeVoe.

Bottom line, it isn’t as mush the finish, as the guitar.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 6 2010 0:38:32)

quote:

hi anders. Just Checking with u. I think I read on another post that u mentioned nitrocellulose is the finish that deadens the soundboard the most?
If it is, then why would it be no 2 after FP for a guitar?

Cheers


If I said so, I mixed up things, but are you sure. I like nitro finish if well done. Its thin and acoustically good



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 6 2010 0:40:12)

Patrick

The problem is that Lacquer means a lot of things. Nitro is a good finish, whereas polyurethane is something i would never put on a guitar.



buleria74 -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 6 2010 4:02:07)

quote:

I have owned two DeVoe’s and played others and they are all they are cracked up to be, lacquer and all. Some of the best guitars I have played were lacquered. On the other hand, I have owned several French polish guitars that were not close to a DeVoe.


Patcrick, I have never played on Devoe guitars but I trust in what you say,
they must be excellent guitars. however, I believe if his instruments were
FP they would sound even better, maybe not a huge difference but 5%-10%
imrovement in sound.



kovachian -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 6 2010 7:59:29)

quote:

5%-10%
imrovement in sound
What do you mean? What aspect of sound is being broken up here, and what are the units of measurement that you're using to describe this aspect?

I will never, ever understand this 'percentage' thing when describing sound. As far as I can tell, that's like saying the color red is 34% of blue, or that a pineapple is 71% more than a honeydew melon.

[:)]

I'm not flaming anyone, I'm sorry, this is just a pet peeve of mine.



buleria74 -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 6 2010 8:13:25)

quote:

What do you mean? What aspect of sound is being broken up here, and what are the units of measurement that you're using to describe this aspect?


we might have different understanding about how good a guitar sounds. I talk
percentage but maybe it's easier to say SLIGHTLY better instead of 5 to 10 %
then maybe it becomes clearer to you.



kovachian -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 6 2010 8:32:13)

Of course that's clearer, that's why I asked and it's how I describe subtle changes. [:)] I just wonder if people are trying to describe some other aspect I'm not aware of. It happens a lot in artistic mindsets so every once in a great long while, I have to come out and ask someone what they mean when they assign percentages and other concrete measurements to describe totally abstract things.



Patrick -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 6 2010 10:41:41)

quote:

Patcrick, I have never played on Devoe guitars but I trust in what you say,
they must be excellent guitars. however, I believe if his instruments were
FP they would sound even better, maybe not a huge difference but 5%-10%
imrovement in sound.


DeVoe has had some of his guiatars French polished and he says he can't tell the diifferance.



Patrick -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 6 2010 10:42:42)

quote:

The problem is that Lacquer means a lot of things. Nitro is a good finish, whereas polyurethane is something i would never put on a guitar.


That's a given. Poly to me is "plastic".



HemeolaMan -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 6 2010 15:39:58)

poly is impossible to repair too. i stripped it off a guitar once. took hours with 60 grit orbital sander.



kovachian -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 6 2010 15:42:37)

You were able to strip poly??? I'm surprised anyone bothers with that crap, even with the aid of power tools.



krichards -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 7 2010 0:51:57)

What is this 'poly' you guys are talking about?

The water based lacquer from stewmac is a mixture of acrylic and urathane. LMI also produce something similar.

I've used the stewmac water based stuff on one guitar and it was very easy to use, gave a great looking finish and and the guitar sounded fine to me.

However it did have a definite plasticky feel to it.

I agree with Anders that the nitro is good but just too dangerous for small scale builders like me, so I always go back to French Polish. Its a pleasure to use and whatever goes wrong its so easy to repair it.



jshelton5040 -> RE: Lester Devoe guitar finishing etc (Feb. 9 2010 15:54:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: krichards

I agree with Anders that the nitro is good but just too dangerous for small scale builders like me, so I always go back to French Polish. Its a pleasure to use and whatever goes wrong its so easy to repair it.


Proper ventilation and a respirator are definitely required for using lacquer (even water based in my opinion).

I asked Anders to explain why it's easier to make repairs with FP over nitro lacquer but he didn't answer yet. I think both finishes are just fine but still don't understand why it's easier to repair one over the other. I'm talking about a scratch or dent or crack. Perhaps he's saying it's easier to repair FP because there is no color added? To me that makes the flamenco guitar kind of bland looking (I like yellow or orange) but whatever turns your crank[:)].



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