Recording...

Recording... (Full Version)

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Merle -> Recording... (Aug. 6 2003 18:23:14)
Hey gang, well, I just finished recording 8 toques onto a CD to see if I have had any improvement! Well, I came to the following conclusions: 1. My playing is not so good at all!! 2. My playing lacks any passion! 3. My technique is terrible! 4. There is no rhyme or reason to my songs! 5. Trying to record and play at the same time is a pain in the arse! 6. I'm not capturing the sound I want 7. and the list goes on and on !! Oh well, back to the drawing board...time to start over again. Talk to you later. Merle

Escribano -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 6 2003 19:28:03)
quote: 5. Trying to record and play at the same time is a pain in the arse! 6. I'm not capturing the sound I want You are not a sound engineer, most musicians are in the same boat - that's why sound engineers (most if them are also software jockeys) have a career. Don't worry about it, if that is what recording yourself has proven then it serves a purpose. If I realise only one thing from my playing it's that I don't know a whole lot [;)] However, there aren't many of us, so what sounds crap to you sounds pretty good to a lot of others (including us) and you should always be your toughest critic. You've come a long way, time to take a rest, ponder the journey, then get up and carry on.

Miguel de Maria -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 6 2003 20:00:22)
Merle, if you thought you sounded good, then you probably sound even worse! The faculty of being self-critical, of recognizing your own shortcomings, shows that your perception has grown. If you know you lack something, you work on it until it is up to speed. In a year, you'll listen to that recording and feel so good because you will have improved so much. Are you still practicing technique an hour a day like you promised? :)

eslastra -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 6 2003 22:01:05)
quote: ORIGINAL: Merle Hey gang, well, I just finished recording 8 toques onto a CD to see if I have had any improvement! Well, I came to the following conclusions: 1. My playing is not so good at all!! 2. My playing lacks any passion! 3. My technique is terrible! 4. There is no rhyme or reason to my songs! 5. Trying to record and play at the same time is a pain in the arse! 6. I'm not capturing the sound I want 7. and the list goes on and on !! Oh well, back to the drawing board...time to start over again. Talk to you later. Merle Ay Merlito, I woke up feeling negative today so I'm going to act on that by doing something positive [;)] You only listed negative criticisms of yourself. How about balancing it out with some positives for each negative. I'll help you get started: !. You're playing better than you did a year ago. 2. You haven't lost your passion for what you obviously love doing. 3. See #1 4. That's why you have us on the forum. Give yourself a break. You got a late start in this along with living in an area where flamenco is non existent. Overall, I think you've done quite well for yourself under the circumstances. Hang in there amigo, and don't forget my offer from a couple years ago [:D] Hope that's a start, now try finding some positive answers for the points 5,6,&7.... [8\|]

Merle -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 7 2003 1:17:11)
1. My playing is not so good at all!! It's not! I mean, I really sound bad! 2. My playing lacks any passion! I think that the reason my music lacks passion, is that I don't play like a flamenco player! There is noone that can tell me different! Sometimes while I am practicing, I find that I try to play this and that, note for note! And. that does not work! (mayybe classical, yes)! 3. My technique is terrible! Now, this is really making me mad! That damn left hand 'Spider Technique' just set me back 3 years!! ;>) 4. There is no rhyme or reason to my songs! I don't know about this? Sometimes when I play, it sounds SO GOOD, and other times, ...(forget it, it sucks big time)! 5. Trying to record and play at the same time is a pain in the arse! That is true! You don;t know how many times I record a palo, just to get ONE that sounds half like chit@@ 6. I'm not capturing the sound I want This is a strange one ! When I play for others, they think I'm a good guitar player, but in the end, it totally sucks, and I know it!! 7. and the list goes on and on !! I appreciate all your encouragement, Michael, Eddie, Simon, and anyone else, but, MY PLAYING IS BAD, REAL BAD!! However, I will go on, and YES, from 3 years ago, until now, my music is 800% better! But, to really understand that I really don't, and never will, be able to play flamenco music, is dishearting in itself...and I'm just being realistic! ;>) Thanks all my friends, for your support, as I will still go on... Merle

Merle -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 7 2003 1:23:51)
Eddie, you are so kind to me! If I ever get a chance to meet you, it would be a pleasure! You have always encouraged me, and I appreciate it, as I know that you are helping me! What friends you all are! I'm a real lucky guy! Merle

eslastra -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 7 2003 1:55:19)
quote: ORIGINAL: Merle Eddie, you are so kind to me! If I ever get a chance to meet you, it would be a pleasure! You have always encouraged me, and I appreciate it, as I know that you are helping me! What friends you all are! I'm a real lucky guy! Merle And my pleasure comes from where I can be of some help [:D] Merle, I suggest that maybe just put the guitar back in the case for a couple of weeks, and do something else totally unrelated to guitar playing, and go back with a refreshed mind. Somtimes a good long break from it all has done wonders for me [:)] Hang in there dude!

Paul Bruhns -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 7 2003 3:39:48)
Merle: I think you play well for a guy on an island! I mean, where do you go to listen and watch and drink in the art? If you have no flamenco in Utah, its no wonder you have difficulty feeling it in your own music. I am a student myself, and I think if I had to do it all over again, I would not start out by trying to learn falsetas, and basic compas. I would first try to feel the music. I mean, when we were kids, didn't we really feel the music? Whatever music we loved, we listened to it on the radio so much that we could tap out every beat from beginning to end. We knew instinctively where all the emphasised notes were, and where all the pauses came in and for just how many beats. We never had to even think about it! Lately, after three years of taking lessons, I quit trying to learn how to play a particular piece. I just listen and feel as much flamenco as I can experience. I have quit trying to understand Paco de Lucia, and Tomatito, and whatever other virtuoso guitarist has a CD out. Instead, I listen to cante, and watch dancing, and pay attention to how the guitar accompanies. I try to find music that is really dressed down to where you can see the guitarist is just trying to keep the feeling and rhythm of the palo. After about six months of listening and feeling it, I could tell my playing actually GOT BETTER. I began to know instinctively where to emphasize, and where not to. And, finally, I'm beginning to play those falsetas and they actually stay in compas! I am beginning to hear the difference, because I now know what to listen FOR! I know I'm rambling on, but it's not your guitar playing! It's in the approach. My recommendation is::: Hide ALL your flamenco guitar CDs, and find some obscure cante and live FLAMENCO performance CDs. Hopefully, find some that the guitarist is a humble accompanyist.... All those things you love, Peteneras, Siguiryas, Tientos, Farruca will come to life inside you. Then you will play it like you feel it. Six months tops! I really hope you don't think I'm preaching... I just really believe this might help... it IS THE ONLY THING that helped me. Best Regards, Paul

Jon Boyes -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 7 2003 8:38:23)
quote: ORIGINAL: Merle 1. My playing is not so good at all!! 2. My playing lacks any passion! 3. My technique is terrible! 4. There is no rhyme or reason to my songs! 5. Trying to record and play at the same time is a pain in the arse! 6. I'm not capturing the sound I want 7. and the list goes on and on !! Hi Merle If its any consolation, I recently reviewed my own recordings thus far over the weekend, and came to exactly the same conclusions [:(] There is nothing quite so humbling as to hear recordings of yourself, is there? And nothig quite as depresing as making comparisons with more experienced players - in terms of their chops, and their recording skills. All I can say is hang in there Merle, you are making great progress from what I've heard from you, and thats the main thing - keep on prtogressing and set yourself realistic targets in your practice.

Miguel de Maria -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 7 2003 16:02:26)
Merle, I know you're getting plenty of advice already, but I think that idea about hiding your virtuoso guitar CDs is an excellent one. As I prepared to depart from sunny Sevilla, I bought about ten CDs (most of them on sale!), yes I got a few new Pacos and a Nino de Pura, but I bought Don Chacon, Antonio Mairena, and Caracol, also. These guys all sang at least 50 years ago, and while they have "famous" guitar players backing them up, the material is just not as technically advanced as today's music is. However, I think you are a bit closer to the heart of things when you listen to this stuff. This is why I bought it. Buy some of this stuff and get it into your feelings, and I bet that it will make you feel and sound more "flamenco"! It's a whole new world there. And as old-fogey as some of this stuff is, a lot of players still use a lot of it.

Merle -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 7 2003 16:24:38)
Thanks Michael, I'll do just that! That sounds like good advice. And, yes, I am practicing technique at least 1 hour a day, maybe more sometimes. Is there any specific CDs that you would recommed? Merle

Miguel de Maria -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 7 2003 16:41:03)
Merle, I have a few that I would recommend. They are big-name guys. Antonio Mairena, Grands Cantaores du flamenco Vol 9, by Le Chant du Monde Manolo Caracol, Cantaores de Epoca Vol 3 Con Antonio Chacon, Vol 1, Flamenco de Oro All compilations of these singers. Other "can't-miss" singers are Juan Valderrama, Pepe Marchena, Bernardo el de Los Lobitos, La Nina de Los Peines. Be aware, Merle, when you first put on one of these CDs, you're going to think it sucks, but discipline yourself to listen to it faithfully for awhile, and it will reward you greatly. You should also get video of these singers. When you see how flamenco singers put it all on the line when they get on stage, you might start to do the same playing guitar!

steenland -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 7 2003 16:52:05)
To: Miachael Cho Wouldn't recommend "Opera Flamenco" cantaors Juanito Valderrama or Pepe Marchena. Recuerdos, T. J. Steenland

Merle -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 7 2003 17:44:31)
Thanks Michael and Paul and everyone else! I will look on the web and order some of these CDs. I think you guys may be right, in that I listen to lots of modern flamenco, and maybe that is what is deterring me trying to arrive at the sound that I'm looking for. All of you are wonderful to me, and give me great advice and inspiration! I just wish that I could pay it back somehow!! Merle

Miguel de Maria -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 7 2003 18:31:48)
The opera flamenco was an important part of the development of flamenco, and these two are known as great cantaores. Of course, there are those that disagree. The famous cantaor Mairena influenced a generation and more of flamencos to believe a bunch of falsehoods about the origin of flamenco. He would claim the only palos worthy of attention were Siguriyas, bulerias, martinets, etc., because they were primitive and gypsies created them, in the cradle of pueblos and enclaves. But this is false. From the very start, flamenco was commercial. It is is a mix of many elements, including gypsy. The opera flamenco phase may sound distasteful to some, but it is certainly worthy, it is certainly as flamenco as anything else. There are many that like to toss around the word "puro" in reference to certain styles of flamenco, but a little thought will show that something that is a mix of gypsy, andalucian folk, arab, sephardic jew can never be called pure. Respectfully, MWC

Jefe -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 8 2003 18:19:43)
Merle, Well I have been listening to you for uhmmm about 2 1/2 years now. Remember I put your first recording up on my webpage. And I KNOW you sound better!! I also know the impact of hitting that DAMN record button and what it does to your fingers.. LOL But I must tell you that if everyone posted (like myself) you would realize just how much you DON'T suck !!

Phil -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 9 2003 0:12:29)
quote: 1. My playing is not so good at all!! 2. My playing lacks any passion! 3. My technique is terrible! 4. There is no rhyme or reason to my songs! 5. Trying to record and play at the same time is a pain in the arse! 6. I'm not capturing the sound I want 7. and the list goes on and on !! Merle, you want some cheese with that whine? [:D] Like my teacher says, first you learn the notes. When you can play the notes well then you work on accenting, dynamics, etc. In other words, playing with feeling. Your playing is coming along just fine. Keep posting samples, I like to hear them. Phil PS. Regarding Peteneras: you never answered me when I asked you if you wanted to me to send you (or post on the forum) a sample of the introduction to a Peteneras that my teacher plays on the CD he just cut. There's not too many examples of recently recorded Peteneras around.

Merle -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 9 2003 1:41:08)
"Merle, you want some cheese with that whine? Like my teacher says, first you learn the notes. When you can play the notes well then you work on accenting, dynamics, etc. In other words, playing with feeling. Your playing is coming along just fine. Keep posting samples, I like to hear them. " Phil ROTFLMAO! Phil, I prefer chicken, ...it tastes like everything, right! (don't drink wine)(gets me HOT)! ;>) Phil, yes, I think you just taught me something!! I'm trying with my music, and, I can tell that it is better, but is not good at all! So, for the rest of this year, I will work on accents, dynamics (from listening to the CDs suggested), and then the NOTES! ;>) It seems funny to me that while I practice, I miss notes, and those missed notes, SOUND GOOD! It's like I made up a different falseta...(not me!)/// "PS. Regarding Peteneras: you never answered me when I asked you if you wanted to me to send you (or post on the forum) a sample of the introduction to a Peteneras that my teacher plays on the CD he just cut. There's not too many examples of recently recorded Peteneras around. ... " Phil, I would LOVE for you to either send me a peteneras, or better yet, post it so all of us can hear it! Paul heard mine, and he changed the whole way I play peteneras..Of course, please post that clip~ It's funny...this forum is to kind to me! Thanks to Senior Simon!!!! Merle (I love him)!!

Merle -> RE: Recording... (Aug. 9 2003 1:50:57)
"Remember I put your first recording up on my webpage. page" Jefe, I remember that ! What fun that was! ;>) How long did it takes us? About 2 hours, and then that peteneras sounded like...uh, caca, caca? I need to hire you as my manager! You want to make about $340,000 every six months? (Don't call me)!??? ;>) How is your music coming? I wish you were here as my percussionest(sp)! You and I would tour the world!! ;>) Merle

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