Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help!

Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Full Version)

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Doitsujin -> Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 24 2010 8:43:41)
Hello! Yes,.. I like traditional flamenco. And... I have a problem... I like especially the playing of Nino Ricardo. One of the bad things about traditional flamenco is, many records are almost unpossible to get in any shop nowadays ... Im on a Nino Ricardo trip at the moment.. And I learn a couple of his compositions and I´ll use them for a danceclass (traditional is best for dance IMO! At least for local beginners to intermediate classes.). I have the CD "Grandes Figures du Flamenco 11 Nino de Ricardo already for years. Now I got into it again, into the beauty of old flamenco guitar! Ok,.lets shorten the story here.. Im still looking some audios-tacks of Nino Ricardo. Campanillero, De Chiclana a Cai (Alegrias) and Que cai (bulerias). I cant find a CD where these tracks are included. My question... because this music seems not to be printed anymore... is there anybody who can send me the tracks if one has them? I would be soooooo happy. Please all traditional guy,..HELP me!! ...[:(][:(]

Guest -> [Deleted] (Jan. 24 2010 8:55:21)
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Arash -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 24 2010 9:28:20)
warte mal etwas bevor du kaufst, vielleicht kann ich sie kriegen.

XXX -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 24 2010 10:06:34)
hey i also like Nino Ricardo, i just have 4 mp3s of him [:(] Sag Bescheid wenn du was findest Arash, sonst mache ich mich auch auf die Suche...

Arash -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 24 2010 10:20:52)
ich krieg das schon hin. ein track hab ich schon. paar stunden noch dann hab ich sie alle [:D] --- btw, its funny, we (the so called "modern flamenco lovers") all love Nino Ricardo [:D] i really like his music too. btw, Rafael Riqueni played this Alegrias "De Chiclana a Cai" in his album "Maestros" from 1997. just for info.

bursche -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 24 2010 10:31:37)
You're saving money for Jason's CD I see.[:D] Ich habe leider keinen der Titel [:(]

Doitsujin -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 24 2010 10:57:54)
^^ Thanks Shroomy, Arash!! I always liked traditional stuff.. I started with Sabicas and JMs collections of a little changed Nino Ricardos and others stuff. I didnt know Paco, Vicente, Gerardo etc. for a couple of years. I also learned some compositions of Paco Pena.. Well... Now Im in really classic flamenco from Nino Ricardo and Ramon Montoya.. Sabicas has his complete own aire.. I like Nino Ricardo much more. I think if you like modern flamenco you will also like older stuff because its all based on older stuff. Its a good start.. And..if you play for dance... you will love traditional stuff because the compas is very good recognizable in traditional stuff and its not too difficult. Nice, tight, easy-intermediate and great for dance. Yeah..Bursche Jasons CD is on its way to me! So..the next weeks I will listen to it very much! I always loop new CDs with my mp3 and listen to them till I sing the music automatically under the shower...[:D]

frhout -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 24 2010 12:14:49)
You can find this CD "Grabaciones Discos Pizarra" either by downloading for $7.99 or buying it for $10.00 at www.amazon.com.

orsonw -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 24 2010 12:23:31)
This may be of use. Pay humberto on Youtube has some lessons explaining Nino Ricardo style/falsetas por Siguiriyas, Bulerias and Soleares. ( Humberto has a good old style technique- I can't even do those free stroke rasgeo any more, they sound great in this style with long finger nails. He's also got a few good guitars for us to enjoy including Reyes)

xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 24 2010 12:33:24)
i have the album Recital de la Guitarra Flamenca in mp3 format, i can send it to you... the track list is: 01 - Bulerías, 02 - Sereata, 03 - Bulerías, 04 - Capricho, 05 - Bulerías, 06 - Granaína, 07 - Bulerías, 08 - Soleá con Fandango, 09 - Rosal-Flamenco, 10 - Campanillero, 11 - Jaleo Cale

cathulu -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 24 2010 19:57:40)
Ich spreche ein bischen Deutch! Ich will auch! Na ya, Ich war nur spass machen! Bis nachstes mal, Tchuss! All those years watching Benny Hill paid off! [:D]

Anders Eliasson -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 25 2010 0:29:03)
Ist es einfacher Niño Ricardo im deutch zu finden? Du kanst auch etwas sehr schönes Niño Ricardo finden mit singern. ZB mit Chocolate

Estevan -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 25 2010 5:34:50)
quote: Du kanst auch etwas sehr schönes Niño Ricardo finden mit singern. Boku mo wollte das sagen.

estebanana -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 25 2010 9:06:39)
I like Nino Ricardo's music a lot. But I have to say it's his accompaniment for cante I love most. I think if there's something to be learned from him it's by taking in how he accompanies Antonio Mairena. I have relied on and enjoyed, cried to, the Antología del cante flamenco y cante gitano dirigida por Antonio Mairena (1960) , ( I believe that's the one) with Nino Ricardo. Nino Ricardo can mark compas for 12 minutes of solea without getting boring, that's some playing. For dancers what I've gotten from him is falsetas that you can use or pieces of falsetas to make little pinches of things from to put at the end of cante lines. In Alegrias I think he has some fantastic signature endings which are very good and like lot of any good music transcend the classification of old or new or modern. I think for contemporary dance accompaniment you have to be on top of the cortes the dancers are going to pull off. Older records don't cover that. I like old falsetas in sections which call for falsetas with new breaks and comping of foot work were you need to complement the compas and musical figures the dancers are doing with footwork. But it all gets built on traditional structures, only a dancer might say, "Yeah well that kind marking might have worked 20 years ago, but we do this now. " So you have to adapt older music to how dancers work now. ( Take note, I got my ass kicked, albeit in a friendly way, by Jason's wife Yaelisa who is the most articulate dancer I've played classes for when it comes to explaining to the guitarist what she wants. ) Often a straight up rendition of a particular older flamenco solo does not work perfectly. Jason and I watched Antonio Rey when he was here last year. We were checking out how much he used early falsetas and endings, but in a way that was super unadorned. It was flabergasting to hear because he's a super monster guitarist, and he inserted the most elementary line endings and set ups to cante that every beginner learns. For dance I've come to the conclusion it's not what you play, old or new, but where you place it in relation to what is going on with the dancer.

Doitsujin -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 25 2010 12:14:22)
hahaha... [:D] Cathulu, Anders and Estevan... youre good with german..and even japanese.. [&:] Im flattened! Benny Hill..I wonder how he always got these many girls running after him..Or ran he after them? :.D Yes,. I have a look for records where Nino Ricardo plays for singers and dance! I owned some very nice old CDs in past..but all are gone now.. I got them years ago for not much money in the main library of my state... I think I´ll check if these records still exist there..

estebanana -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 25 2010 13:15:28)
The Cante Gitanto Andaluz is available on CD now. it used to be informally known as the London Anthology. I think the Mairena collection I mentioned is on CD now, I have the original vinyl and some CD's made from it. Call Flamenco Connection in Virginia- they have that stuff if it's on CD. If not I might be able to send you am mp3 of some of what I have on CD. The two long solea cuts are a gold mine of marking and ending for cante playing, plus you get to hear a lot or letras and different styles of cante por solea. The other thing that is cool is the cantin~as- it has nice line endings which you can steal right off the record. It's also super clear how he marks the compas and very effective. I also love this recording of Tomatito playing for Camaron por Cantinas - I can't rememeber the exact one right at the moment. But between the two of Ricardo and Tomatito you can get a lot of milage out of a little basic material. The one thing about older records is I feel like bulerias can be really stiff compared to the way people swing it nowadays and I prefer to try to play in the Diego del Morao vein than the older styles. Solea por buleria is another matter. I love the way Terremoto sings it and and whomever is accompanying him. Some older recordings have very compelling toque in solea por buleria. The Cante Gitano Andaluz recording is super in that respect. But again I love the way Moraito or Pedro Bacan can swing solea por buleria the best. So much to love and listen to.

estebanana -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 26 2010 0:39:23)
I made a mistake about which recording I was referring to. I was in a great hurry today to work and pack for a trip. The Mairena with Nino is on the Columbia anthology released in 1972. I'm pretty sure that it was put out on CD a few years ago. The Solea cut I was thinking of is called Las Piedras de Tu Calle. I've got it here, somewhere, but won't be able to mp3 it until I get back. In the mean time I located volume 8 of that anthology which has Nino playing Romeras and Siguiriyas. After my plane lands I'll see what I can do.

NormanKliman -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 26 2010 6:28:00)
Good cuts you mentioned Estebanana. I like those tracks a lot better than any of Niño Ricardo's solo recordings. He accompanies Caracol on an entire album that is hard to find although the bulería por soleá and the mirabrás are on the Orfeon anthology, if I remember right. Actually, any recording of Niño Ricardo accompanying will be loaded with excellent material. His earliest ones get a lot of attention as the singers are Pastora and Tomás Pavón, El Gloria, Vallejo and others, but I don't really like those as much because they sound "thin" to me. He recorded with many famous singers, sometimes ones you wouldn't expect, like Enrique Morente, Lebrijano (with Paco de Lucía!!!) and Curro Malena, but also with others that weren't as good or as famous, like Enrique El Culata (Pepe's brother). Every one of these recordings is worth having if you like his playing style. I mentioned in another post that one of his best accompaniment recordings is with Pepe Pinto. This one, along with the Mairena anthology and the Caracol album are the best, IMO, but the last two aren't easy to find. However, the Pepe Pinto recording is an incredibly good deal because it's easy to find, it's cheap, and the voice and guitar sound really clear and strong. At this URL, you can hear bits and pieces of each track and I think you can even buy the whole thing. At the very least, you can take note of the track titles, because it's been reissued on many different labels, so you should be able to find it somewhere, probably for just a few dollars. Classic "discount-bin" gem. http://www.emusic.com/album/Pepe-Pinto-Archivo-De-Flamenco-Vol-9-Pepe-Pinto-MP3-Download/11144685.html

Ricardo -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 26 2010 7:16:17)
quote: At this URL, you can hear bits and pieces of each track and I think you can even buy the whole thing. At the very least, you can take note of the track titles, because it's been reissued on many different labels, so you should be able to find it somewhere, probably for just a few dollars. Classic "discount-bin" gem. http://www.emusic.com/album/Pepe-Pinto-Archivo-De-Flamenco-Vol-9-Pepe-Pinto-MP3-Download/11144685.html Nice. Too bad the album cover says the guitars are Pepe Martinez and Manolo Sanlucar.

Ricardo -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 26 2010 7:18:25)
quote: Campanillero, De Chiclana a Cai (Alegrias) and Que cai (bulerias). I cant find a CD where these tracks are included. Hmm. I have the faucher tab book and those 3 were in the transcription. But the book came with a CD of those cuts. They are very low quality audio, obvious Faucher knew they were rare recordings. I guess you got the free download of the tabs or something doit?[;)][;)] BUY THE BOOK punk!!!![:@][:D][:D][:D] down at the bottom: http://www.moltengold.com/cgi-bin/eBzget6A.pl?shop=shops/77/21/AffedisFl&trolley=572160&page=http://www.affedis.com/new_musicbooks2.html

NormanKliman -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 26 2010 9:55:16)
quote: Too bad the album cover says the guitars are Pepe Martinez and Manolo Sanlucar. Forgot to point that out. But you can tell that it really is him, can't you? [&:][:)] His sound was totally unique. Aside from his nails and rhythmic counterpoint, it sounds like he used planting a lot (preparing right-hand fingers on strings). I think part of that sound comes from keeping your fingers closer than necessary to the strings, if that's possible. They sort of get in each other's way, limiting the movements of the "mechanism" and flattening out the subtleties. Gives it a metallic sound. It's different from Sabicas' right-hand approach, at least in the videos I've seen.

Doitsujin -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 26 2010 10:17:10)
Thats it! So much good input on Nino Ricardo! Great! Im currently trying to find these records any may buy some. Thank you estebanana! I want to have a look at these pieces you recommended! Im really diggin into traditional guitar at the moment..^^ Ricardo, youre right. I have the book of Faucher. I think the CD thing is new... I bought a couple of other books of Faucher (yes,..I really bought them. I also prefer to buy CDs in general..) and in no book was a CD included..Even not in the Paco Cepero book...and some of the compositions in this book were only recorded on vinyl... So.. I was never able to listen to these tracks...but bought the book. :./ I also thought about buying the Montoya book..but its only in notation.. Too much stress for me. Well..the nino ricardo book is the only one that somehow occurred... The other books I own I bought all myself. Its not so expensive and was and is still very worth its money.

Doitsujin -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 26 2010 11:11:40)
Im listening to Mairena right now...That reminds me so hard on my beginning with flamenco guitar... I love it! Especially the brute alegrias compas strumming. I´ll do that in the next danceclass ^^ hehe.. But I have to sit there with coat and greased hair to the back to be authentic. [:D]

Ricardo -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 26 2010 12:58:38)
quote: and in no book was a CD included..Even not in the Paco Cepero book... Sorry man. Then you got ripped off. I got it many years ago. On the cover there should be a picture of a CD. If yours does NOT have that picture, then weird. If it does, then you got ripped off. Send a message to affedis, tell him where you bought your book and that the disc was not included, and he should send you one. If he doesn't respond or says "no", then let me know. I will send you the mp3s and then we can talk bad about both whoever sold you the book, and Faucher. [;)] Ricardo

Ricardo -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 26 2010 13:03:31)
quote: ORIGINAL: NormanKliman quote: Too bad the album cover says the guitars are Pepe Martinez and Manolo Sanlucar. Forgot to point that out. But you can tell that it really is him, can't you? [&:][:)] His sound was totally unique. Aside from his nails and rhythmic counterpoint, it sounds like he used planting a lot (preparing right-hand fingers on strings). I think part of that sound comes from keeping your fingers closer than necessary to the strings, if that's possible. They sort of get in each other's way, limiting the movements of the "mechanism" and flattening out the subtleties. Gives it a metallic sound. It's different from Sabicas' right-hand approach, at least in the videos I've seen. Yeah his thumb work and arps are obvious. Especially vs the other two guitarists who sound totally different! About the hand postion and metallic sound. It does not necessarily result from only hand position. Maybe the thumb and his low action cuz his thumb stays out over the hole more, but the problem he has is his nail shape. I read that he had nail trouble, and the sound confirms that to me. Also that one video of solea, you can see his thumb nail is pretty warped. But a lot of players use a similar postion (yeah Sabicas is totally different as are others....) but don't get such a naily metallic tone. Ricardo

NormanKliman -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 26 2010 13:15:13)
More than one person who knew him said that his nails grew in an upward curve, concave instead of convex. It's a medical condition called spoon-nail or koilonychia. Found those names by accident one day in the dictionary.

estebanana -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Jan. 26 2010 14:21:29)
Here's the letras and the correct album of the solea Las Piedras and the Cantinas with Nino. I'll see if I can find the CD Note how the different style of solea are charted out. LA GRAN HISTORIA DEL CANTE GITANO-ANDALUZ (COLUMBIA - 1966) Guitarra: Niño Ricardo y Melchor de Marchena Las piedras de tu calle (Soleares de los Puertos y Jerez) Soleá de Enrique el Mellizo Si las pieras de tu calle tuvieran conocimiento, cuando me vieran venir, lloraran de sentimiento. Compañera, si me muero, la casita de los locos ha de ser tu paraero. Soleá de P. El Guante De noche me salgo al campo a llorar por mi sentir y el árbol que me escuchaba se le secó la raíz. Por no tener quien te quiera, serrana, te estás queando como el panal de la cera. Soleá de José Yyanda Se lo peí esta mañana al Señor del Baratillo que me quiera esta gitana Soleá de Mazantini Por el hablar de la gente olvié a quién bien quería; pa mientras viva en el mundo, ya se acabó mi alegría. Soleá de Frijones Vente conmigo a la buena, que entre los dos pasaremos las alegrías y las penas. Para tropa Barcelona, para turrón Alicante, para buenas mozas Ronda. Yo vivo con la alegría que la ropa y tu persona con el tiempo ha de ser mía. No tiene comparación (Cantiñas de Cádiz) He recorrío el mundo entero y he llegao a la conclusión que los flamencos de Cai no tienen comparación. Tengo que hacer contigo una que va a ser soná yo te voy a soltar un día las cintas del delantal. Vente conmigo, primita, vente conmigo y serás capitana de mi barco Virgen de la Soleá. Desde Cai hasta Agual, si te subes en el tren, ten cuidao con el estribo que no te vayas tú a caer. Traigo un canasto lleno de flores hasta lo alto.

estebanana -> RE: Dear traditional flamenco lovers, I need your help! (Feb. 3 2010 12:13:55)
I'm away from home until next week and I did not bring the right CD's to put up the Nino examples. Apologies it might take until next thurs. But I have not forgotten.

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