XXX -> Hand position upper strings (Jan. 18 2010 6:22:29)
I was watching that video and saw that he does never move his thumb off the 6th string. At 2:00 he explains. I was told to move the whole hand up, making the thumb loose contact with the 6th string. That makes quick string changes hard imo (there is a Paco scale that brings me always out on the string changes). How do you guys do it?
Doitsujin -> RE: Hand position upper strings (Jan. 18 2010 6:37:15)
For rasguados I also never put the thumb i.e. on the 5th string. But I flip the fingers in serveral different way. For reasguados on the trebles I flip the fingers from the first joint of the thumb. For rasguados on the basses I flip form the inside of the thumb. If that was your question... Im not in the mood to give me Ruben Diaz at the moment.
XXX -> RE: Hand position upper strings (Jan. 18 2010 6:39:37)
oh yeah i should have mentioned that i mean when playing picado...
Doitsujin -> RE: Hand position upper strings (Jan. 18 2010 8:18:05)
Well,.. my picado sucks...so I cant give you any hints about that topic. :./
Ramon Amira -> RE: Hand position upper strings (Jan. 18 2010 8:48:08)
Deniz –
It sounds like you're referring to thumb position when playing picado descending from treble to bass. If so, there are a couple of different approaches. The generally recommended approach is that used by Paco de Lucia, and many other players, which is pretty much what you say you were told – to move the whole hand upward as you play a descending picado. The purpose of this is to maintain the same relationship of your fingers to the strings. Some players as they move their hand up keep their thumb in light contact with the top. Others just move their hand up and the thumb doesn't quite make contact with the top. I have seen Paco where he's so close to the top that's it really hard to tell if he's making contact. I would recommend keeping some touch with the top, but the main point is move the hand up as your fingers move upward toward the bass strings.
Here is Paco de Lucia – check the run at about 1;20 or so.
Another approach is also one you mention – keeping a light touch with the thumb on the sixth string. Paco Cepero seems to do that in the following clip at about 00:40.
Pepe Romero taught me a completely different idea, which he uses. That is to maintain full contact with the thumb on the sixth string, but bring the thumb down behind the fingers. The great advantage of that approach is that it allows you to move your hand upward while still getting the full support of the thumb resting on the sixth string. I could be wrong, but it looks like Grisha might do the same thing. I use that method for picado, and I think it's probably the best way, but I would suggest trying all three ways and see which works best for you.
Pepe Romero
Arash -> RE: Hand position upper strings (Jan. 18 2010 8:57:32)
deniz, i have seen so many different positions, that i think it really depends on many factors, like the size of your hand, fingers, how you feel most comfortable , etc.
like here, grisha almost doesn't move the thumb at all , when he moves to the upper strings:
here you can see paco (for a short moment), where he moves up the thumb 0.38 - 0.41 (at the same time folds the thumb a bit)
here you can see nino de pura at 1.13 and his unusual thumb position when playing the scales
and we have many others who move the thumb way up the 6th strings, when playing picado and moving up scales to bass strings....
---
edit: i posted before seeing prominents post. yes that paco video is better example than mine
Ricardo -> RE: Hand position upper strings (Jan. 18 2010 9:31:01)
quote:
I was watching that video and
um, why?????[&:] Man everything he was saying there was like part of some delusional fantasy he has in his head. The whole thing about the guitar was flamenco first, no one played classical guitar till segovia, the thing about faustino conde and paco, paco inventing the negra, the condes dying in late 90's, the things about technique, etc etc etc....all bs, he just made it up! [8|]
Only thing he said that made sense in what I understand to be reality, was that classical guitars necessarily have a higher bridge then flamencos.
Doitsujin -> RE: Hand position upper strings (Jan. 18 2010 10:07:56)
I didnt write something here. Go on.
Ramon Amira -> RE: Hand position upper strings (Jan. 18 2010 10:58:06)
quote:
here you can see nino de pura at 1.13 and his unusual thumb position when playing the scales
The clip of Nino de Pura is very interesting more for thumb position for picado in general. What he is doing is really a great idea for picado, but not easy to do. Again it all has to do with the relationship of the fingers to the strings as you change strings while playing picado. The most common approach is to keep the thumb on six all the way until maybe you get up to five or even six. Some players keep P on five while playing the treble strings, and then move P to six for bass, etc. While obviously you can do any of that perfectly well, strictly speaking the relationship of the fingers to each string changes slightly if P remains on the same string while the fingers change strings. What Nino here is doing is keeping the exact relationship of fingers to strings on each and every string, by moving his thumb up or down depending on where the fingers are going. It looks like he's leaving one string in between – so if I and M are playing the first string, then he rests P on the third, and with I and M on the second, P goes to the fourth, and so on up or down the strings. I think that this is really a terrific way to play picado, because no matter what string he is playing his fingers are at the precisely same angle to the strings. The problem is that to execute this properly and well requires very slow, deliberate, careful practice over a good period of time, because when you reach a certain tempo there is barely time to move and then rest the thumb for support before you have to play the picado. But if you can do it, I feel that it's a great approach to picado. The original question comes up also with this of course, because he has to bring P up past the sixth string, which he does.
The picado starts just after 1:00
XXX -> RE: Hand position upper strings (Jan. 18 2010 12:06:50)
Yeah the nino de pura vid is indeed interesting. I have attached the scale i referred to. Its the beginning of bar 7 that always confuses me. I have never managed to move the whole hand so fast up and down, to match 3rd and 4th string.
Its just something that has not been solved SINCE YEARS. My picado was more in shape back then, than it is now. I havent practice picado since 3 years or so, thats no joke.
