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Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 20 2009 10:11:34)

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mark indigo -> RE: Arpeggio to Picado transitions (Dec. 20 2009 13:03:58)

if the problem is that the apoyando on the top string is slowing you down, i would say play it sin apoyando.... but i would like to hear what other people say about this, i'm sure some would say to do the top E apoyando, but why? i don't think there would be a fixed rule about this

overall i think the most important is gonna be this;

quote:

3) Make sure to relax the hand completely so it does not "lock" at the beginning of the picado run (this is the hardest thing for me)




cathulu -> RE: Arpeggio to Picado transitions (Dec. 20 2009 13:34:36)

Well, when I play it I start the picado on the F# note, after the arpeggio is played fully through the ima. That to me is most natural. Playing the anular finger apoyando I think is wrong and will slow you down.

Hey Shroomy, you should sign-up for the beginner challenge. It is time for you to make an upload with staying power. What do you say??? This will force you to put together something that flows and you will learn a lot. I know, getting things to flow and in the groove is the hardest part, especially going from one technique to another, and until that happens, it isn't music. I am only starting to get there myself!




Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 20 2009 13:52:40)

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cathulu -> RE: Arpeggio to Picado transitions (Dec. 20 2009 14:59:29)

Oh that's what they all say... I am too advanced for the beginners challenge! Then they bail out of the intermediate challege so no one will ever know one way or the other [:D]

Anyways I am pulling on your leg to get you to reconsider, the judges will be the final arbiter of how good you think you are. What we think, and what we can actually do when the rubber hits the road, are totally different beasts. I think whomever does the beginners challenge well, and wins it, is going to be a pretty decent tocaore - that has been shown in past challenges.

Beginner challenges are not easy to pull off cleanly and effortlessly. A beginner flamenco challenge is intermediate level for most guitarists imho. Trying to incorporate clean rolling rasqueos over multiple beats in bulerias compas - that is not beginner material.

Well, at any rate I hope to see a future upload from you one day... all the best and hope your wrist is coming along.




KMMI77 -> RE: Arpeggio to Picado transitions (Dec. 20 2009 15:09:26)

I have little to no flexibility in the last joint of the A finger on my right hand. I have noticed that the way the flesh tapers towards the nail of fingers combined with finger joint flexibility play an important role in how easy ( A ) finger rest strokes will feel.

I only do (A finger) rest strokes as part of an arpeggio. (A) rest stroke 6th string, (M) no rest stroke 5th string (I)no rest stroke 4th string for example. Even then i find It feels clunky and requires a forced movement.

I don't view this as a major problem as it only effects my (A) finger rest strokes. I think the whole A finger rest stroke can be overdone and sound pretty crappy. Especially when it interferes with the flow of the music. Anyway, due to my lack of flexibility I would start my picado rest stroke on the F#.




NormanKliman -> RE: Arpeggio to Picado transitions (Dec. 21 2009 0:28:53)

Hi Lionel,

Very interesting subject. As usual, this message ended up longer than I intended, but these are just some tips that work for me. The basic idea is to take it as a single "technique" rather than two techniques put together.

There really shouldn't be much difference in the finger movements used in picado and those used in arpeggios, so make sure that you're not significantly changing the positioning of your right hand to do picados. I'm not saying that you do this, but many guitarists use strange right-hand postures for picado. Figuratively, it's as if they were instinctively ducking their heads or gritting their teeth or clenching up or something when they have to do a picado. Literally, this can involve keeping the last joint of the thumb (the one with the nail) bent and pressed against the soundboard, or maybe straightening the index and middle fingers for the picado. This is nearly always because somebody has told them to do it that way or because they saw Paco play that way (Paco uses the bent thumb in a few early videos). Not saying that these are wrong ways of doing picado, because everyone's hands are different, etc., but I think they're usually inefficient ways based on someone else's point of view (...on someone else's hands![:)]). In any case, you certainly can't expect things to flow if you use radically different finger/hand positioning for the two techniques. If you want it to flow, make it easy for that to happen.

If you think about it, picado is really a silly little two-finger technique that anybody can do (speed is another matter), so it's absolutely necessary to find a simple and relaxed way of doing it, rather than thinking something like, "This is the hardest of all techniques, but there's a special hand position that makes it easier." Again, not saying that you do that, but I know many guitarists do.

Have a look at this: Rest your thumb on the sixth string and put a-m-i on the trebles, as if you were going to pluck the four strings. Notice that, if you keep all four fingers in contact with the strings and move your palm a little closer to the guitar, this "flattens" the arch formed by your right hand and sharpens the angle of the bent middle knuckle in the i-m-a fingers. My advice is to make sure that this arch changes as little as possible whenever you play. I try to visualize a steady right hand (like a mitten rather than a spider) held in the same arch at all times. Underneath that unchanging arch, the fingers are doing whatever they're doing (like a centipede's legs) but the arch doesn't change. From the shoulder down to the fingertips, there should be little difference between picado and arpeggios.

Along with the idea of the arch, the other important thing is to keep your thumb in light contact with the strings at all times. The idea is that your thumb acts as a guide to let your fingers know where the strings are. It's like walking down stairs in the dark and keeping one hand in contact with a wall or handrail so that your feet know where to find the next step. (Okay, enough weird metaphors! [:D]) For example, in the tab in your post, after your thumb plays that E on the fourth string, make sure that it comes back into contact with one of the strings. The way I do it, after the fourth-string E, the thumb comes up, and I lightly press it against the fourth string using the pad of skin that's on the left side of my thumb next to the nail. The movement nearly coincides with the next note, which is the index on the third string. There are several ways to do this, just make sure that you're not doing anything "strange," like sticking your thumb up in the air or something.

I agree entirely with the ring-finger rest stroke on the first string.

Hope that helps!




Ricardo -> RE: Arpeggio to Picado transitions (Dec. 21 2009 15:50:17)

Simply put, you need to think purely rhythmically about the phrase, and groove with it....then once you feel the whole phrase and each note in it, you increase tempo. Simple as that. So what is the rhythm? Depends on the palo, but taken as is, I would do groups of 4 or 8 per beat. So that means, regardless if you do rest or free on the top string, you need to accent the G note, the 3rd fret....NOT the E or the F#, in order to make the phrase flow. Emphasis on the F# could be what throws off the time and the feel, and prevents you from speeding up and keeping it clean. You should infact practice STOPPING on the G note on the beat. And repeat over and over until you can do it fast and clean. 1e&ah,2e&ah,THREE!....repeat. phpp,imai,m. I would personally do a finger tirando. Later add on the next group of 4 notes and stop on the C note first fret. Continue adding groups of 4 until you got the entire phrase fast and in rhythm.

Another idea is to start rest strokes on the G string, on the BEAT, not really what I would do, but some players will do rest stroke arps for a consistency of tone.




Stu -> RE: Arpeggio to Picado transitions (Dec. 22 2009 3:46:24)

maybe start the first picado stroke with (m) instead of (i)
??

My teacher suggested I try to start my picado with (m) instead of (i)..it took a while to shift my brain to do it but I prefer it by a long way...maybe worth a try for you??




Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 22 2009 11:15:15)

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ToddK -> RE: Arpeggio to Picado transitions (Dec. 22 2009 13:10:10)

I play this pattern alot when i practice. I move it up when fret on each repetition till i hit the 12th fret or so, then start moving it down a fret per rep.
There should be no rest in between reps. Everything should be straight 16th notes.
Not only are you practicing arps into picado, but also picado back into arps. Hey, it cant hurt. :)


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