seguirilla?

seguirilla? (Full Version)

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at_leo_87 -> seguirilla? (Dec. 1 2009 23:58:29)
ok, a noob question. is a seguirilla and a seguiriya the same thing?

michel -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 2 2009 1:29:33)
hello i would say yes, there are different possibilities to write it (siguiriyas, seguidillas etc..)

at_leo_87 -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 2 2009 2:19:49)
see, this is what's confusing. after looking some siguirillas up on youtube, it would appear that it's the same thing as seguiriya. but then i just listened to this seguirilla track by vicente amigo and el pele and it sounds like it's in fours. [&:]

John O. -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 2 2009 2:32:23)
Don' think that's right. What's the name of the track? Do you have a link?

at_leo_87 -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 2 2009 3:34:59)
http://www.musica4all.com/202393/el-pele-vicente-amigo-acontecio.html the player is on the left side in white. either my compas with seguiriyas is really ****ty or something weird is going on. i'm hearing those two bass notes as "& 1"

John O. -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 2 2009 3:41:50)
COOL! It's siguiriya rhythm, but the beginning can trick you as the intro is played 4/4. During the singing listen the the percussion, the accents are 8, 10, 12, 3, 6. Think in tempo ca. 100bpm.

mark indigo -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 2 2009 3:53:59)
quote: is a seguirilla and a seguiriya the same thing? double "l" is pronounced "y" so they are the same thing quote: just listened to this seguirilla track by vicente amigo and el pele and it sounds like it's in fours. the track "Aconteció" on Canto? it's a bit weird for sure, the intro sounds like it's in 4's, but at 1:05 the guitar plays what sounds like a llamada/cierre and at 1:09 the handclaps start clearly marking the accents- 1 (+) 2 (+) 3 (+ a) 4 (+ a) 5 (+) [or however you want to count it] edit: hello, you guys made 2 more posts while i wrote this! i can't get the link to work anyway

at_leo_87 -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 2 2009 4:34:07)
ok, thanks guys. i can hear the palmas on 8, 10, 12, 3, 6 now. BUT those sob bass thuds are still in fours. right? that was throwing me off. so now, what's a seguidilla? i looked it up on youtube and it looks like a classical thing.

John O. -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 2 2009 4:55:05)
Yeah that's right, I love it when they play around with rhythms like that, like Pitingo's "Soulerias". You can often hear modern Bulerias with accents in 2's. Seguidilla is a lighter form of folklore dance from which the Sevillanas eventually originated.

Ricardo -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 2 2009 6:44:59)
REgarding the word: Siguiriya seguiriya seguirilla siguirilla seguidilla All different miss spellings of the same word. 2 kinds of song forms, one is flamenco, the other is classical spanish. Panaderos that is famous played by Paco written by Esteban de sanlucar, is based on the classical song form. Likewise Solea is short for Soleares which is a miss spelled Soledades. Also you have the same name for different song forms from latin america like Tango, Rumba, Guajira, Etc. Colombiana confuses people on youtube for sure!! [:D] People try to show some connection of the word to the different musics (as if some where hidden inside the music is some connection) but it is just a name IMO. Don't let the miss spelling or double usage bother you. About Pele. The subdivision IS rumba accent, but it is double or quadruple time over top a very slow siguiriyas. So 6 Rumba compases=one compas of Siguiriyas. Only one accent is displaced (count 3 of the 4th rumba compas is accented). The intro they fool you into thinking it is Rumba because of the subdivision, and only when the palmas and cante enter are you aware of the underlying accent pattern. Cool idea. Also it is an example of true and pure modal music....the harmony or chord that Vicente plays NEVER Changes....it just drones on the C# for the entire song. Ricardo

at_leo_87 -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 2 2009 16:53:23)
thanks for the clarification, everyone. great analysis, ricardo! i think it's a cool idea but it gives me a headache when i listen to it. maybe if that four pulse wasn't so strong. i've head an alegrias with accents in twos as well. it bugs me because i keep thinking it's picking up to change or something. does vicente have any other seguiriyas?

Anders Eliasson -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 2 2009 23:19:42)
quote: Likewise Solea is short for Soleares which is a miss spelled Soledades. I´ve been told something else. Soleá is when you sing all letras from one distinct region in one song. (Alcalá, Triana, Cadiz etc) Soleares is when you sing letras from different regions in one song. I´ve never analyzed it, so I just say that its what I´ve been told and lots of things have been said.[8D]

mark indigo -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 3 2009 4:03:08)
quote: Likewise Solea is short for Soleares which is a miss spelled Soledades i know this is gonna seem picky, but.... isn't "soleares" the phonetic spelling of the andaluz pronunciation of "soledades" rather than a mis-spelling? i would guess the flamenco form has always been written as "soleares" becuase noone who sung it or played it ever actually pronounced it "soledades" same way we actually write "isn't it" and "wouldn't it" instead of "is not it" and "would not it" because noone actually says it that way

Ramon Amira -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 3 2009 7:23:44)
Mark is correct. It is actually not a misspelling. It is the correct spelling of a mispronunciation. Gypsies in Andalusia never pronounce hard consonants. They just drop them and say whatever is left. So yes, "Soleares" is simply a mispronunciation of "Soledades." Anyone can try it for themselves – just say "Soledades" and leave off the two "Ds".

Escribano -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 3 2009 8:03:53)
quote: So yes, "Soleares" is simply a mispronunciation of "Soledades." That's how I hear it too. It's not just the gitanos, though. It may also sound like "sol-ee-ahh-ray" in some parts, as they drop the "s" as well. As in "buenas tardes" - shortened to the universal greeting of "buena"

Ricardo -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 6:09:37)
about solea....would make sense but going back to the old labeling of records issue, in practice you will see a mix of cantes in a performance called "solea" and in the baile too of course. about phonetic spelling....um, that is still a miss spelling.[8\|][8\|][:D] If wee all wayees spehllld things fuh net tickly wee wuud never miss spehll ehneee thing.

John O. -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 7:40:51)
You missed a few e's to accentuate the eeeeeeeeeehnee thing [:D]

mark indigo -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 8:03:33)
quote: miss spelling i just can't resist this anymore, "miss spelling" is a mis-spelling!![:D][:D][:D] about phonetic spelling, there's no problem with "can't" in the above, or "there's" in this sentence, they aren't (whoops, there's another one!) mis-spellings, they are correct spellings of phonetic "there is", "can not", "are not" etc. and "isn't" and even "ain't" are other examples, same way as everyone knows that soleares and solea are dialect spellings of soledades and soledad..

Ricardo -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 8:56:41)
quote: i just can't resist this anymore, "miss spelling" is a mis-spelling!! oh, you didn't know that is the flamenco gypsy way to spell it.[8\|][8\|][:D][:D]

Ramon Amira -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 11:28:58)
To be very precise about it "mis-spelling" is a misspelling. There's no hyphen. Misspelling is spelled misspelling.

Ron.M -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 11:45:33)
How about a girl called Miss Spelling? I once met a guy called Mr. Careless (honestly!) I said "Geez!...You must have had quite a bit of stick on that?" He just waved his hand and said, "Aw..don't mention it...I've heard 'em all..." Cool guy actually...I think he revelled in it... cheers, Ron

Ron.M -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 11:48:56)
quote: How about a girl called Miss Spelling? And a first name of "Mississippi"[:D] cheers, Ron

mark indigo -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 11:53:36)
quote: the flamenco gypsy way to spell it don't they pronounce it "mi' 'pelling"[:D][:D][:D]

mark indigo -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 11:55:48)
quote: To be very precise about it "mis-spelling" is a misspelling. There's no hyphen. Misspelling is spelled misspelling. touché[:D]

Ramon Amira -> [Deleted] (Dec. 5 2009 12:11:59)
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 5 2009 12:14:01

Ramon Amira -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 12:14:38)
Flamenco guitars at ten paces.

Doitsujin -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 13:24:52)
Damn pedants! LOL!! Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Ramon Amira -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 19:28:13)
Who you callin' a peasant?!

kozz -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 5 2009 19:35:07)
Wasn't seguidilla more gypsy style and the other seguiriya-spellings more related to the saeta's?

Ron.M -> RE: seguirilla? (Dec. 6 2009 3:11:05)
I'm intrigued by some of the lookalike "real photo" avatars here. Mark looks like Bono Doit looks like the young Bob Dylan Kozz looks like Joe Brown (from Joe Brown and the Bruvvers) Escribano makes me think of that big tall guy from "Madness" [:D][:D] cheers, Ron

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