tickling the twine

tickling the twine (Full Version)

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Miguel de Maria -> tickling the twine (Sep. 9 2004 3:30:32)
As many of you know, I have spent the last couple of years obsessed with picado. It seems so easy for some people... they whiz up and down, sideways and backwards, fast and clean and clear! And yes, I have made a lot of progress, but there have been ups and downs. Sometimes I feel like I'm on my way to burning speed, and then the next day I feel like I can't play two notes in a row without messing up. One problem that I had was that I was very inconsistent. If I warmed up for a long time, I could usually get up to speed, and got a nice fast picado that was quite clean. At the time used fingers which were held rigid, in imitation of how I saw Paco playing. Nowadays I am experimenting with a whole new technique, with great results. The new technique is to completely relax the fingertips, and just kind of flop them or rub them against the strings. I was just doing this as a training technique, to lower the general level of tension in my hand, but found that it worked quite well. Actually the relaxed fingertips seems quite superior to holding it straight for fast passages. I think that the level of coordination is much reduced. You end up feeling the effort more toward the hand, it's a strange feeling. But it's more consistent. I find that when I play slowly using the relaxed fingertips, I lose volume, but when I play fast it's just as loud. I think that in the end it has more to do with controlling the fingertips rather than whether it's limp or tense, but I certainly would recommend to an of you "tight fingertip" guys to give this a try and see how you like it.

Jon Boyes -> RE: tickling the twine (Sep. 9 2004 7:58:53)
The fingertip issue is another one that gets debated in classical guitar circles. I have a detailed discussion on the topic in one book (Berg's Mastering Guitar Technique). You don't see many flamenco players do this, the finger tip is virtually always held firm. However, I read (on FT?) that Vicente allows his finger tips to 'give' like this, Mike. It would be interesting to see a close up video of V.A. play, I love his stuff and I 've heard several comments about his unconventional technique (some from you, I think.) Jon

hamia -> RE: tickling the twine (Sep. 9 2004 10:52:10)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria As many of you know, I have spent the last couple of years obsessed with picado. I also find picado an endlessly fascinating topic. About 2 months ago, I started to try out the Graf-Martinez flat palm technique in which the movement comes from the 2nd joint. It is a fantastic way of playing and I recommend anyone who has the time to give it a go. As GM points out, at first it seemed impossible to play this way, impossible to play for more than a couple of seconds. A month of practice later though it began to feel more comfortable. Now it seems normal and relaxed. I adopt a variety of methods to practice, including over-emphasizing the flatness of the palm so that the knuckles are pushed right down towards the soundboard), using a lot of RH force, using minimum RH force and trying for max speed, etc. After a lengthy warm up, when I relax my hand somewhat (so that the palm is not entirely flat but curved slightly, just like PdL) I am very pleased at the progress in speed. I am playing without nails at the moment so the sound isn’t the best but I intend to continue with this technique. The volume and accuracy are excellent. The downside is that it’s uncomfortable on the right shoulder – the basic hand shape must stay the same regardless of whether you play on the 1st or the 6th string, so picado on the bass strings requires the right arm to be raised to preserve the flat palm. This creates some tension in the shoulder – but my RH is not really affected by this. The floppiness or rigidity of the fingertips doesn’t seem to be an issue for me. In their natural state they are fairly rigid but I don’t think this is tension, it’s just the way they are. I can also let them bend against string resistance but so far can’t see any immediate advantage in doing this. Although I do practice every so often with floppy fingertips on the principle that it may be doing some good – plus I heard that VA plays this way – so who knows!. hamia

Miguel de Maria -> RE: tickling the twine (Sep. 9 2004 15:46:33)
Yes, I heard that Vicente Amigo plays with floppy fingertips, and I also heard that Manolo Sanlucar says it is impossible to play accurate fast picado without holding them rigid. So there you have it. I also read a little bit of Juan Martin's technique, and I remember seeing that he wants students to let the tip give, too. I wasn't about to copy Juan Martin, but Vicente.... BTW, I don't really believe you can play picado withotu using the main joint (the one which connects the fingers to the hand). Basically, it's impossible to move the 2nd and 1st joint without moving the knuckle, and so you end up using the knuckle to power the stroke anyway. Probably there is just a greater percentage of 2nd joint action in the Graf-Martinez method, and the 2nd joint initiates it. Grab ahold of your finger where it attaches to the hand and try to play that way, and you'l see my point.

hamia -> RE: tickling the twine (Sep. 10 2004 4:22:16)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria Yes, I heard that Vicente Amigo plays with floppy fingertips, and I also heard that Manolo Sanlucar says it is impossible to play accurate fast picado without holding them rigid. So there you have it. I also read a little bit of Juan Martin's technique, and I remember seeing that he wants students to let the tip give, too. I wasn't about to copy Juan Martin, but Vicente.... BTW, I don't really believe you can play picado withotu using the main joint (the one which connects the fingers to the hand). Basically, it's impossible to move the 2nd and 1st joint without moving the knuckle, and so you end up using the knuckle to power the stroke anyway. Probably there is just a greater percentage of 2nd joint action in the Graf-Martinez method, and the 2nd joint initiates it. Grab ahold of your finger where it attaches to the hand and try to play that way, and you'l see my point. Yes, it's a mixture of large knuckle and 2nd joint. But I believe in this method most of the power is supposed to come from the 2nd joint, and this is what I try to aim for when I practice. The large knuckle moves a little bit when the finger tips reposition to restrike the strings. I think the contribution the large knuckle makes to the power of the stroke will depend on how flat the palm is. At one end of the scale there is the very flat palm with very little large knuckle movement (with almost zero contribution to powering the string) -and at the other there is the high wrist, straight finger technique where there is no 2nd joint movement and all the power comes from the knuckle. A curved hand falls in between these extremes. hamia

Miguel de Maria -> RE: tickling the twine (Sep. 10 2004 14:55:59)
Well, let us all know how it goes. My guess is that the main benefits could be tone and perhaps power...but we'll have to see.

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