Solea de Triana.. chords please (Full Version)

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Anders Eliasson -> Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 16 2009 1:09:52)

I would appreciate some basic instructions on the chords used to accompany singers on Soleá de Triana.

Its the soleá they sing the most here, and I get very confused when I try to accompany.

I used to have Normans sites bookmarked, but I cant find them. A link please...



hassurbanipal -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 16 2009 1:35:33)

www.ctv.es/USERS/norman/

there you go anders, I don't know the chords for the solea de triana, sorry.

Andy



duende -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 17 2009 22:47:37)

i found some on youtube, just search "solea de triana"



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 18 2009 1:50:59)

Thanks Andy

Its a fantastic resource. (thanks Norman, I´m studing)

Henrik, yeah, I´ve been on youtube and I´m still confused[:D]

BTW, I want to say congratulations with your entry on the Cante challenge. It was really good. You are very present and following the singer at the same time. They would love you here. You are improving your playing a lot and working with a singer would suit you very well. [:)][:)][:)]



duende -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 18 2009 2:14:43)

I´ve heard that Solea de triana has a special melody so im also hunting for some good examples. Tell me if you find some.

Maybe Diego Clavel has got some on his Solea cd´s?



Matic -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 18 2009 3:14:50)

Hey,
Clavel has many examples of S. de Triana on his cd.

I don't really know what you want... listening to many examples will probably solve your questions..



And here's the direct link to Norman's info on SdT:
http://perso.orange.es/sonionegro/soleares.htm#triana

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edguerin -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 18 2009 5:01:54)

I just sent you a pdf-file via PM.

[:)]



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 18 2009 5:20:48)

Matic.

Thanks. I think I´ll buy the Clavel compilation. I like his voice anyways.
I think what I was looking for was a kind of easy answer to a difficult question, so that I didn´t have to think to much myself. I have forund out that I need to change my attitude and study[;)]

Thanks Ed. Got it. cool.



JasonMcGuire -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 18 2009 5:32:43)

This may help[;)]



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NormanKliman -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 18 2009 6:50:57)

Here's a description of the styles that have unusual chord changes. All the chords and notes are for por arriba accompaniment, so be careful because some of the recordings on my site are por medio. I've put them into three categories. Only a few of these styles are still sung today.

First category: Soleás that change to G and/or C before the cambio. They all sound similar, with aires of cañas, polos, serranas and other ancient singing styles.

El Fillo 1: Second line of verse ends on G, third on C.

Silverio 1-2: Third line of verse C, fourth line of verse G (modulate with D7), ends with repetition of first and second line of verse like a normal cambio. A lot of singers know Silverio 2, and it's the style that usually trips us tocaores, maybe because of its similarity to another Triana soleá, José Lorente, which actually has no unusual chord changes.

Enrique Ortega: Similar to Silverio 1-2. First line of verse C, second line of verse G, take it from there like a normal cambio. You might run into an older singer who remembers this style.

José Yllanda 1: This one also goes to G (in the first line of verse), but it doesn't have much to do with the other soleás in this category (it's three-line verse and the others are four-liners). This style isn't at all popular. Similar aires are in the jaleos extremeños and the soleá Jerez anonymous.

Second category: Odd tones that you can try to match with the right chords. The terms fifth and second refer to the degrees (notes) of the E Phrygian scale, so flatted fifth is B flat (use C7) and sharped second is F sharp (use D7 or even B7). Two non-Triana styles are similar: Juaniquí 4 (flatted fifth) and La Serneta 3 (sharped second). Not many singers know any of these cantes.

José Yllanda 2: sharped second degree in conclusion (D7 or B7).

José Yllanda 3: flatted fifth in conclusion (C7).

Serneta 4: Flatted fifth throughout (C7).

Third category: The soleá attributed to Pinea uses normal chords but the lines of verse are linked together and the cambio comes up quickly. It's usually a three-liner, and when the first verse isn't repeated it's a very short cante. A lot of singers know this style.



JasonMcGuire -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 18 2009 11:01:15)

Damn Norman, I was hoping you were going to nail this one down for us. Thanks for that.

When you say "verse"....... do you mean "line of verse"?

I got a little confused. I think of "verse" as a "stanza" of poetry.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 18 2009 11:23:13)

Hey Norman. Thats a great help. Your site is fantastic, but when you start listening to it all, it seems so endless. This categorizacion is really helpfull.

Of to listen[:)]



NormanKliman -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 18 2009 23:22:54)

Hi guys,

Jason: "Verse" means both a single line and a group of lines, but I think of it as you do, as a stanza, and I've edited my post. It seems a lot more simple in Spanish, with the terms estrofa/copla/letra (stanza/verse), verso (line of verse) and tercio (sung line of verse), although sometimes in Spanish people don't clearly distinguish between tercio and verso. It can be really confusing talking about these things! For example, some cantes start with the second written line of verse, which makes it the first sung line, etc.

Anders: Yes, there's a lot of information (over 400 audio files of siguiriyas and soleás). It's important to be aware that not all of the styles have to be learned, because many have fallen into oblivion (like the soleá El Fillo 1), others were never popular (José Yllanda 1), some are particular to a certain artist and therefore not very popular (José Yllanda 2 and 3), and a few contain tiny differences that hardly warrant special attention (Pepe el de La Matrona's styles, for example).

I've heard many people complain that the Solers' system of classification takes into account too many obscure styles and tiny details. For example, Pierre Lefranc has a similar book with narrower criteria. It doesn't include styles that are based on fewer than three recordings, if I remember correctly. While a narrower scope is easier to understand (and makes the author look better), I think a broader scope contributes more to the art form. For example, the soleá El Fillo 1 is excellent, but as far as I know nobody has ever recorded it. There aren't that many "hidden gems" in the old recordings, but there are a few.

So about the overabundance of information, I'm very much in favor of keeping things as simple as possible, but I think it might sometimes be an advantage when you have to put some effort into understanding a really dense piece of research. The language itself is another matter though. Long flowery sentences turn me off right quick!



JasonMcGuire -> RE: Solea de Triana.. chords please (Oct. 19 2009 8:06:56)

Thanks Norman for clarifying that.

I am getting spoiled..... by asking you one simple question, I get answers to many others.



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